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Unread 04-20-2009, 12:17 PM   #91
moonshinefuel
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Thanks Rusty for the addition to the thread.

Here are more pictures of the fitment of the pilot on the nv 3550 and the slv. cyl. on the bell. The fit is excellent on everything.

Pictures from top top to bottom.

Front view pilot.
Pilot flush.
Pilot pushed back.
Slv. cyl. mount on bell.
Slv. cyl. inside bell.


dscn0671.jpg   dscn0674.jpg   dscn0675.jpg   dscn0676.jpg   dscn0677.jpg  

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Unread 04-20-2009, 12:20 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opihi59 View Post
On your slave cylinder, does it have a fixture that allows it to be bled? Really should have a plug or something to go in the bleeder bore which will be oriented "upwards" when installed. I read the instructions you photo'd, it implies that there is no bleeder nipple, you have to "bench bleed" it before installation, then add the hose, and bleed that as well........ and it certainly sounds as if there are plenty of opportunities for that process to not go completely smooth.
Additionally, don't cut off the white plastic strips on the action rod--they are designed to be installed intact, and seated in the receptacle of the clutch fork. When you depress the clutch for the first time, the straps are designed to break. The tabs don't fall away, they just stay there. Of course, if you remove the straps, you can launch the piston and you generally need a new slave cyl at that point. Good that the instructions covered that in some detail. Others on the forum have had adventures with that strap.
Thanks again opihi, looking into it.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 12:41 PM   #93
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It is very unlikely I will be moving the motor mounts forward for various reasons. Though I think it is an excellent idea. The length of the nv 3550 is approx. 2 inches longer than the ax 5, and I understand the dakota bell housing is almost 1 inch longer than the ax 5 as well, but I don't know the exact measurements yet. So, the j.b. conv. s.s. s.y.e. will take most all of that added length, and in the final measurements I should still be on the plus side of things because of this. The j.b. conv. takes a lot of length off the transfer case. The shifter will be set back a little from the original ax 5 position but for me that is a good thing. I like that. And if it requires a little trimming, I am all for that to.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 09:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opihi59 View Post
On your slave cylinder, does it have a fixture that allows it to be bled? Really should have a plug or something to go in the bleeder bore which will be oriented "upwards" when installed. I read the instructions you photo'd, it implies that there is no bleeder nipple, you have to "bench bleed" it before installation, then add the hose, and bleed that as well........ and it certainly sounds as if there are plenty of opportunities for that process to not go completely smooth.
Additionally, don't cut off the white plastic strips on the action rod--they are designed to be installed intact, and seated in the receptacle of the clutch fork. When you depress the clutch for the first time, the straps are designed to break. The tabs don't fall away, they just stay there. Of course, if you remove the straps, you can launch the piston and you generally need a new slave cyl at that point. Good that the instructions covered that in some detail. Others on the forum have had adventures with that strap.

Hello opihi, I talked to Steve at Advance Adapters this morning. I did ask about the slv. cyl. and how it has no bleeder. He says yes, there is always an issue on this. Apparently it is a Chrysler slv. cyl. and that is the way chrysler did it, he did say something to the point of there should be a bleeder for these, but this is Chrysler.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 10:04 AM   #95
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For anyone following this write up, and you are considering doing what I am doing, I am basically making an effort to follow the popular way of doing this conversion.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 10:13 AM   #96
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One of these days....I will come across a discarded external slave and pick it apart. There is an internally threaded nipple that pokes up from the body of the slave. In the bottom, it has some sorta plug, but there is no screw driver slot or hex socket set into it. I have surmised that this is spun in there on a "snap-off" shaft that yields at a certain torque value and leaves the plug in place. My theory is that you could center drill this carefully without generating too much heat, put in an easy-out and then remove this plug. Then you could fashion some sorta bleeder nipple similar to on your brakes, and this would be the bleeder. I'm sure you recognize the next 2 photos.



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Last edited by Opihi59; 12-14-2011 at 12:43 PM.. Reason: Reloaded photo codes
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Unread 04-21-2009, 10:29 AM   #97
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And let me just add this, Adv. Adapters does not sell "kit" for this conversion. I am following guidelines of people who have successfully done this. I am not concerned too much about stuff like mounting brackets, etc. My main concern right now is the clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing, fork arm, slv. cyl. are all properly working together. Is everything mathematical and correct as far as all the inner dimensions in the clutch from the front to the pilot, to the back of the throwout bearing. High Impact sells the kits, and says it will work, Adv. Adapters Rep. Steve has his reservations as far as the inner workings of the clutch. His take is to completely remove the entire inner workings of the clutch housing of the 96-98 dakota bell housing and use all the clutch components from it. High Impact says different, they say you can re use all of your clutch components except the pilot, disc, and bell housing. I know it is successfully done the way High Impact is doing it, take from it what you will. I like this kind of stuff, so this is interesting.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 12:30 PM   #98
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Basically put, the fundamentals of putting an ax 15 behind a 2.5 are more sound, as it has been done that way from the factory. The nv 3550 has never been put behind a 2.5 from Chrysler, the ax 15 has. The bolt patterns are the same for the ax 15 as they are for the NV3550. I know there is a protrusion above the front bearing retainer that is different, and the bearing retainer itself is different, (smaller) on the NV3550.
So, I will have to see what the difference is, if any in the overall dimensions from front to back there are, between the two.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 01:12 PM   #99
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From Advance Adapters own manual. Quote: "The NV3550 has the same exact configuration as the AX15 transmission." The transfer case side of the NV3550 is the same as the AX15, "with the exception of losing a bit of spline engagement." (the transfer case side).
dscn0679.jpg   dscn0678.jpg  
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Unread 04-21-2009, 01:26 PM   #100
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Found two pictures for comparison. The NV3550 (top), and the AX15 (bottom).
nv3550_drivers_side_view.jpg   ax15s_small2.jpg  
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Last edited by moonshinefuel; 12-14-2011 at 12:17 AM.. Reason: trimming unecessary info
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Unread 04-22-2009, 12:37 PM   #101
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Begin to calculate pilot depth into NV4500 bushing:

Input shaft lengths:
AX5 is said to be 7.500 inches
NV3550 is said to be 7.875 inches.

The measurements on the bell of the dakota, and the input shaft of the NV3550 appear to be very close to the same, and according to the paperwork I have seen, are the same.
dscn0710.jpg   dscn0711.jpg   dscn0704.jpg   dscn0699.jpg  
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Unread 04-22-2009, 12:52 PM   #102
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My research shows through the literature, the AX5 bell is approx 1 inch shorter than the dakota bell. If someone finds different, please post. I am posting an underside view of my bell, on my 95 wrangler, with a rather crude, but best i could do measurement of bell, and that looks to be the case, 1 inch shorter.
dscn0690.jpg  
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Unread 04-22-2009, 01:13 PM   #103
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Three pictures here, one of the AX5 pilot bushing in flywheel, another of the nv 4500 pilot bushing upside down in countersink indicating it will most likely be near flush with flywheel as opposed to being 1/4 inch down into flywheel as the ax5 bushing is, so, this indicates an approx. gain of 1/4 inch on the pilot according to my calculations.
dscn0708.jpg   dscn0706.jpg  
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Unread 04-23-2009, 09:11 AM   #104
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Here is a much more in depth look at pilot comparisons. The NV4500 pilot and the 95 yj wrangler 2.5, AX5 pilot viewed from various angles.
dscn0716.jpg   dscn0717.jpg   dscn0718.jpg   dscn0722.jpg   dscn0721.jpg  

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Unread 04-23-2009, 09:40 AM   #105
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The input shaft length on the ax5 is 7.5 inches. http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ax5.htm
The bell housing on the ax 5 is said to be 6.875 inches in deep, that leaves .625 inches sticking out beyond the flush surface of the bell. So that difference needs to be made up to reach the pilot. The nv 3550 output shaft is the same exact depth of the bell, 7.875 inches. So, we need .625.
The picture here looks a little more than it is due to a fixed angle. But the closest measurement in the difference between the pilots was 11/32 of an inch, translated to .34375 or rounded to .344 of an inch.
We need .625 to equal the original depth of the ax5 bushing, to do that it looks like an additional .281 is necessary.
Is the end of the input shaft falling into the pilot? Yes, according to my calculations, but, it is short .281 of the original ax5 measurement. If the difference you see missing doesn't bother you than you are fine.That measurement found also has to be compared to the measurement for the proper pilot bushing depth for the nv 3550, not the ax5. So more depth may be required than the missing .281 to satisfy me, as I am the one considering this conversion. My first thought is yes, this will work, but I want to make sure that the pilot doesn't come dislodged somehow, and it is very very unlikely it will, but, I would like to just tack it in there around the outside perimeter of the pilot to the flywheel for a little insurance maybe. And, I am not locked into doing it this way yet, even though the only reported problems I have heard of are with the slave, and making adjustments there. Still thinking about it, and considering all options..
dscn0730.jpg  
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