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Nv 3550 On 4 Angry Squirrels.

80K views 337 replies 21 participants last post by  Mr.ThunderMakeR 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok. I am starting my new thread that will re-appear from time to time to chart my progress, and or set backs, or complete withdrawal from this project all together. However, I will put my best foot forward with pictures and give it my best shot. If I do withdraw, I will state why, and give notice. But I do not plan on doing that, and my progress will be over a period of time. There are kits out there for sale to do this, so I am following their guidelines, only I am buying my own parts that they list to do it, to save money of course. And I have a major part of the list of things needed already. So, I am starting my thread to start monitoring my own progress and take notes for myself. This application works for ax15 transmissions as well, however, I happened to stumble across a new nv3550 for an excellent price, so I jumped on it, and that is what I am using. I hope this is of interest to all of us blessed 2.5 owners as most of you 4.0 owners are probably just going to shake their collective heads side to side and ask, "why doesn't he just swap to a 4.0?" The answer is, all the things I have make it more cost effective to just stick with my 2.5. I already have the necessary 96-98 dakota bell housing, for 2.5 to mate with the ax15 as they did with the dakota pick ups back then, and it will also work with the nv 3550 as I am using. I have the new NV 3550 transmission, I have the 23 spline np231j dated 1997 that is necessary to work with the trans. as the one on it I have now is a 21 spline. I just bought the clutch disc that is needed to work with my original clutch. p/n cp4198 (autozone) 9 1/8 o.d. but splines to match my nv 3550. I am going to order from Advance Adaptors a pilot bushing p/n (716167) nv4500, and a slave kit p/n (716340) that is said to work with my jeep hopefully tomorrow. The pressure plate and flywheel are also new as well as the Timkin throwout bearing. I do plan on putting a slip yoke eliminator kit, jb conversions, and obviously a new rear drive shaft. Not sure what kind yet. I need it as the new transmission casting is 2 inches longer than the ax5. Well, let me get started with something I really don't like what I see already..This is the disc required to work with the original clutch. the o.d. looks right, the splines look right, but, I noticed the side view angle, the spline column for the ax5 disc appears to be taller. I haven't measured it, but that's what it looks like. My first thought is just to add a properly sized washer to make up for the difference but I am not sure about that yet, or even if this really matters. But I need to know. This clutch disc is an application originally for a 4 cyl. camaro, 1984.
 

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#264 · (Edited)
Ok, excellent RollinThunder.
What I am doing here is posting my picture of a new old stock ax5 pressure plate. This is with the cp4198 clutch disc. This is the measurement I have with the tape measure resting on one of the springs that clearly shows how much it brings it in. This is a measurement with the bolts tightened down.
If you could drop your measuring tape down in exactly like I did resting on one of the clutch springs, and take a picture just like mine, that would be great, and post the measurement you have.
Hopefully you have not bolted up your transmission yet.
It is really hard to tell at this point what you have. It looks like they are arching out more than the ax5 pressure plate just by the picture. It's what it "looks" like. So, the gain at the center might be more than you think, but I don't know. If you gained 1/2 inch at center, then it did what it was supposed to do.
More pictures of a side view of your pressure plate bolted on would be nice too, if possible. :cheers2:
 

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#265 · (Edited)
Sure, pics I can do now. :)
It will be a while before I get the tranny in there. I have to figure out what to do about the T-case. I have the old 21 spline one...

First a side pic:



Next I stuck the ruler in the middle on the spline collar/shaft/whatever thing, just for reference:




Now on the spring, like you had it:



Looks like 1-1/4"
So maybe your're right, but to be certain (maybe you could check this on yours--I traded my flywheel in for the core and didnt tell them it wasnt the same part exatly, so I cant check myself anymore) measure the distance from the front of the ring gear to the end of the "fingers":

 
#266 ·
I'm not too sure if the springs are exactly in the same place in both the clutch disks, but you are right in that the distance between the disk springs and the fingers is a good 3/4" further out than on the pic you had of the old one. Now that I look at it, those fingers are very close to the clutch disk, compared to the dakota one. I guess 1/2" or 3/4" change in depth isnt too easy to see when you're looking at a part that's 13" across. :)
 
#267 ·
Do you remember seeing somewhere something about someone prying off the shifter stick/lever from an AX5/15 or something? I know AA makes a bolt on one, but just for posterity's sake, I'd like to try to reuse my old shifter if possible.
 
#272 ·
I don't think I will be using the NV4500 pilot bushing, I don't think RoliinThunder is either. I am going to use the dakota flywheel and clutch system probably. Therefore, I will be using the needle/roller bearing type bushing that comes with the 96-98 dakota clutch set. I purchased the 96-98 flywheel, which was found the flywheel is basically the same, with the exception of the pilot hub i.d. is is suited to fit the roller bushing, and the machined holes in the front of the flywheel are patterned to fit the dakota clutch application. All other specifications are showing it will work. The spline count is different for the input shaft on the transmission on the dakota clutch set, so a separate clutch disc is needed in addition the buying the dakota clutch set.
If you are going to retain your ax5 clutch set and use the NV4500 pilot bushing, then i'd follow what the directions indicate you should do. Just buy a quart of the necessary oil needed and soak it. I think any oil is better than no oil, but the oil they indicate was probably shown to work best for whatever reason.
 
#273 · (Edited)
For anyone considering or doing an AX5 to AX15 or NV3550 conversion, I am going to discuss the clutch slave piston rod and the fact that the Dakota Bell is approx. 1 inch longer, and how this all factors in to the determined necessary length of the slave cylinder rod. I did brief on this subject but will be going further into this with a few added diagrams and illustrations. Let me first bring this top picture back, and discuss how I got this measurement. I got it by simply measuring down into the slave cylinder holes of both the factory AX5 setup, and the new Dakota bell setup with the AX5 pressure plate/84 camaro clutch disc setup, and compared the two depths.
Second picture down is AX5 measured distance in to end of release arm.
Third picture down is the NV3550 measured depth in to end of release arm. These are all factored into the model that you are retaining the AX5 pressure plate and flywheel.
 

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#275 ·
This is an illustration of basically what is happening.

Top pictureis 1/4 inch rubber spacer.
Second picture downis two pens on a piece of paper.
Third and forth picture down, the rubber spacer in and rubber spacer out of center of pens.
 

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#276 ·
Top picture is without spacer in center of pens measurement.
Second picture down is with spacer in the center of pens.
Third picture down is diagram and what is happening, the gain is more on the end of the pen than the center. This is basically the same principle of what is happening with the release arm and the added gain beyond the 1 inch bell depth required for clutch slave rod.
 

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#277 ·
Now, will it work with only extending the clutch slave rod 1 inch? Yes, I believe it will. This I believe is a testament to the range of the slave cylinder. The above however, are the calculations I discovered that will bring you closest to the AX5 throw length as it was originally for the slave cylinder itself.
 
#278 ·
Great info in here! :cheers2:

When I swapped the 3550 into my Jeep, I was able swap the push rod from the Dakota slave cylinder, as it just pulls out and presses into the Jeep slave cylinder. Was very glad that the Bell I got had the old OEM Dakota slave cylinder still attached to it.
 
#280 ·
I don't have an exact measurement, but I do remember laying them side by side and the Dak rod was pretty close to 1" longer, give or take maybe 1/8"

If you cannot get just another pushrod, maybe you can cut and sleeve yours longer?
 
#281 · (Edited)
Do you remember if the slave cylinder was the exact same design as the AX5 application slave cylinder? I have seen a couple of different versions with an online search.
As far as cutting and sleeving, I am still considering this. Things are a little different for me though because I am using the Dakota Flywheel, and entire dakota clutch system as well. The only thing I may not be using from the Dakota clutch system is the slave cylinder possibly and the clutch disc, but, I may or may not buy the slave cylinder, not sure yet. So basically it is the 2.5 engine, the entire clutch system from the 96-98 dakota including flywheel, pressure plate, and pilot, minus the slave cylinder..(so far) Though the clutch disc from the dakota clutch kit won't work as the spline count is higher for that 96-98 two wheel drive AX15 transmission, so, I am replacing the disc from the dakota clutch kit with the 10 spline (84 camaro clutch disc) Rcf 4198 p/n or other comparable part number 10 spline applications, as mentioned previously in this thread.
 
#282 ·
It was of the exact same design, it had a small chunk of hydraulic hose comming from the back of it, I remember pondering if I should keep it for a spare.

I will look for it tonight and see if I have it still. If so I can snap some pics.
 
#284 ·
I apologize, I could not find the Dakota slave cylinder, it might have gotten thrown out when I moved a few months ago.

But it did look like the one you have posted a few pages back/like the stock Jeep one. the body might have been slightly larger, but if so not much. But it bolted up the same and the rod was the same only about an inch longer.
 
#285 · (Edited)
I see what you are saying. It was easier just to use the rod than to switch over the slave cylinder itself, due to re-bleeding, or not the right fit for the line, or whatever.
From what I have seen on a search, I believe the top picture is the Dakota Slave cylinder, and notice how it does not have the 3/16 of an inch plastic shim as the bottom picture is for the AX5 application.
At this point it really looks like exactly what you are saying. Sleeve the metal rod by one inch, and remove the plastic shim from the slave cylinder, brings it very close to the extra 1/4 of an inch, well within acceptable tolerance. Or, buy a 96-98 Dakota slave cylinder, and use that rod, and take out the plastic shim from the front to get to the target measurement.
That's what it looks like, from what I can see right now. It is working for you, so this must be it, I would think.
Edit in 3rd picture down of another view of 3/16 of an inch plastic shim on AX5 application.
 

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#286 ·
There appear to be two different versions using clutchcityonline.com.
Top picture 1996 Dakota 2.5 engine.
Bottom picture 1997 and 1998 same picture as previous. The first year may share the same dimensions, just different style or fitting to line possibly.
Notice none have a plastic shim either.
 

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#287 ·
hmmm,


I will pull out my set up this weekend and take some pics for you. The Dakota bellhousing/slave cylinder must have been a '96, because I do not remember the plastic port/cap comming off the top.
 
#289 ·
I just stopped in Kragen Auto Parts and asked for a 1997 Dakota 2.5 slave cylinder. He said that part is back ordered and not in stock. I have not tried Autozone, Pep Boys, or others. But, I did get a printout of the part and they are usually more accurate than online searches. A little over 50 dollars new. This should provide the necessary difference in depth to the ax15/nv3550 application. So, it is just a simple matter of buying and removing the rod from this one, as WAC_jeeper mentioned, or, sleeving the old one yourself. I am going to buy this one and post when I do get it.
 

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