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Unread 05-25-2009, 04:31 PM   #1
tenax
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a new rear wiper defroster wiring question

guy who worked on the jeep for me has part of it right..a few issues though:

the rear defroster- switches off when you turn the key off..also, the relay shuts it off after about 15 minutes but you can't manually switch the switch off?

the rear wiper- pump is working great, motor is spinning but the arm which originally was working is not catching now..it moves a little bit..kind of small back and forth..anything that might have slipped inside the casing with the spindle that is obvious to check out?

thanks.

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Unread 05-25-2009, 05:15 PM   #2
noodle9
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the wiring for defroster is working as it should be. the relay has a built in heater element to shut it off automatically. Like a timer. Without it, you could leave it on for a long time, if you forgot about it. the wiper arm probably came loose on the wiper stud, that is why it does not move correctly. check it out.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 06:32 PM   #3
tenax
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so, you're saying that i'm not supposed to be able to turn off the defrost button manually? (it only shuts off when i turn off the jeep or by the timer)

in regards to the wiper, that's what i thought after i posted..but, i went to the jeep, took the arm off, verified the shaft is turning and the spline looks good. it does go back and forth ok. i took a look at the spline inside the arm..looks good as well..put it back on turned it on, motor tries to move it but can't move it more than about an 1/8 of an inch, unless, i lift the arm a bit? is that simply a weak motor? problem with wiring? i should note that the guy said the park circuit for it isn't working and i need a new switch really..(for 28 bucks, i'll get one if needed) but, the park circuit wouldn't affect the blade movement, would it? it seems to me the motor must be weak if the friction against the glass seems to stop the arm from moving?
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:20 PM   #4
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The defogger switch has three positions:
Top in initializes the relay/timer and starts the defogging; the switch will not remain in this position. Middle is run position to allow the relay/timer to complete the heating cycle; the switch can remain in this position. Bottom in provides an alternate ground for the relay/timer and should shut it off; the switch can remain in this OFF position.

As to the wiper motor, itís either weak or fouled up or both. To check for a weak motor, hose some water on the window while itís running and see if itís OK and then youíll know.

Otherwise remove the wiper motor cover and inspect whatís happening inside. Itíll probably be easier if you just dismount the motor entirely. Once the motor is accessible clean it up as best possible and spray some WD40 about the shaft, window gasket, etc. Donít forget that WD is first and foremost a solvent, as opposed to a penetrating oil like PB, and provides some lubrication qualities as well.

I suspect the switch he said you needed is not the dash switch but the parking mechanism switch in the rear wiper housing. You should find the problem with the parking circuit easily, itís simply a switch and probably loose wires, corrosion or fouling, so clean and WD again. A lot of crap can accumulate in there due to being at the rear end where all the dust and crap gets sucked in by vacuum behind the vehicle.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:20 PM   #5
noodle9
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no, you can't turn it off without turning off the ignition. it is that way by design. go figure. the switch could be bad or the motor is bad. you have to check for propper voltage at the plug inside the drivers side of the top to verify it. the park circuit would only affect it when you turn it off.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:21 PM   #6
laybackman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenax View Post
guy who worked on the jeep for me has part of it right..a few issues though:

the rear defroster- switches off when you turn the key off..also, the relay shuts it off after about 15 minutes but you can't manually switch the switch off?

the rear wiper- pump is working great, motor is spinning but the arm which originally was working is not catching now..it moves a little bit..kind of small back and forth..anything that might have slipped inside the casing with the spindle that is obvious to check out?

thanks.
You should be able to turn the rear defroster on or off with the switch. The switch has a light in it to le you know if it is on/off. maybe the wiper shaft is stripped inside the motor. Gotta pull it apart to make sure.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:37 PM   #7
tenax
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thanks for helping me through this, guys..i've got more questions than answer still:

defrost- to clarify..the switch only seems to have 2 positions..off- toggle down..on, toggled up..trying to toggle down is doing nothing once it's been toggled up. the light does come on it when it is activated. goes off when the timer goes off (15 minutes i think?) or when the ignition key is turned off.


wiper- ok, a few things here. it seemed somewhat intelligent to me to see how a front wiper motor functions on the jeep compared to rear. here is what i found out:

-front wipers- would be relatively hard to stop them from moving..and i can't manually rotate them by hand..not without bending something i'm sure.

-rear wiper- i can move it by hand..heck , i can flip the arm around 360 with the motor off, probably with it turned on as well..very little resistance there. stripped inside is my guess? worth trying to fix?

-now, when i look at wiper arms, they say for my year yj (92) that the front and back arms should be the same? definitey not on this jeep..this is a longer arm with almost kind of an S shape to it. i held up a spare front arm and i don't see anyway that would work. so i'm guessing the ht which was an add on , is from a new jeep? yj or tj? also, when i raise the glass i'm concerned it's going to bend the arm but maybe that goes back to the issue of zero resistance from the arm to rotating so there's no pressure to keep it from flipping off the glass? it kind of bends sideways and slides off the glass if i force the lid up, you know?
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:49 PM   #8
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I'm running an '89 and it definitely has three positions, also confirmed by the owners manual, so maybe there was a change after '89. Either that or you've got the wrong switch.

As to the wiper shaft, what LBMan said, it's stripped!! Which is probably why the parking switch doesn't work as well. Might as well get a new unit. As to the wiper arms, they're identical front to back. The front blades are 12 inch and the rear 16 inch, that's the only difference on an '89.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 08:01 PM   #9
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Last minute "climbing the slope of hope" thought, put one on the front ones on the rear wiper and see if you can rotate it freely. Perhaps the strange one back there is from some other vehicle, is oversized, and the splines are not meshing. Just a thought.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 08:10 PM   #10
tenax
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thanks un..yeah, i'll try that but boy..it doesn't seem anywhere close to a long enough arm to use a front and if i put a longer blade on it, the blade would stick out at the top because the arm is so short, if you know what i mean..what i need to see is some pics of the back of jeeps i guess.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 08:21 PM   #11
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The mounting geometry is different between front and back. The back comes through the glass so it's automatically about 3 inches "longer" back there and I only meant for you to test to see if the splines on the existing rear wiper arm are really meshing with the motor shaft. If a front arm mounted back there rotates 360 freely then the gears are stripped as LBMan said.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 09:22 PM   #12
tenax
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here's pictures of my arm

and it doesn't mount through the glass..there is a piece on the hardtop that it comes through..also, i tried the yj front arm and it flips around easily and doesn't move much as well..hope you can see the rear arm here..totally different type then a front jeep yj arm..is it from a yj or something else?



in this shot, note to keep it sitting on the glass so it didn't skew off, i had to hold the end..i'm assuming if the motor was holding the arm in place properly with no loose play, it wouldn't be an issue. this arm does indeed seem to give good coverage on the window:

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Unread 05-25-2009, 10:02 PM   #13
tenax
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ok, i took my current motor apart and here's what i see..the big quite gear is fine..but..the shaft itself must have broken off inside the encosure..it literally turns by itself with no impact on the gears..my guess is that the gear was turning normally and the shift was vibrating turning or more likely was pushed against the piece it used to be attached to tight enough that it grabbed and moved a bit but not enough to move the wiper too far. the guy who worked on this today said it was working at the start fine after he wired power to it... and then he heard a pop/snap kind of sound and that was all she wrote..i suspect that was the shaft snapping and that the seized over the 5 years the jeep sat..it never was worked hooked up after the PO bought the htop. now, my last question on the wiper situation aside from thoughts on the wiper arm itself..see the pic of the motor below..do you think the parking switch is in that backside plastic rectangle that sits above the motor? i ask because if it is in there and if it's shot..does that usually come with a replacement motor? or do you order it separately? may make the difference between buying new and used:

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Unread 05-26-2009, 05:58 AM   #14
tenax
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in case it got buried in all my narrative (sorry, i'm anal) anyone know if the rectangular box mounted above the motor housing that the plugs go into:

a) comes with a new motor?

b) does it contain the park circuit? ( in event a motor doesn't come with one and i need a new one, what do you call it?)

c) is there anything out of the ordinary with that wiper arm as it clearly does not match the front arms, so i'm assuming the hardtop is a later version (it did come from a different jeep than the one it's on) or is it from another vehicle entirely?

thanks!
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Unread 05-26-2009, 07:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenax View Post
in case it got buried in all my narrative (sorry, i'm anal) anyone know if the rectangular box mounted above the motor housing that the plugs go into:

a) comes with a new motor?

b) does it contain the park circuit? ( in event a motor doesn't come with one and i need a new one, what do you call it?)

c) is there anything out of the ordinary with that wiper arm as it clearly does not match the front arms, so i'm assuming the hardtop is a later version (it did come from a different jeep than the one it's on) or is it from another vehicle entirely?

thanks!
Your HT may be an early version of the wrangler HT's.The newer style (93-95?) has the wiper motor arm coming through the glass, and the wiper arm is straight. The earlier rear wiper arms were offset like yours is. The wiper motor with the attached gear box comes as a unit. The part number is on the wiper motor (56003066). I could not find that part number for a wiper motor in any of the parts lists I had from '86 onward, but, that doesn't necessarily mean it is older. I have seen several instances where a part number could not be found in any parts list but the part did in fact exist. Did you pull the the wiper motor apart? I would just for the curiosity factor. Heck maybe a pin fell out and it is repairable.
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