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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:33 PM   #61
Apollo12227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost183 View Post
im curious

but for diagnosing purposes mostly and the process of elimination..

jump the distributor, using pair of jumper wires

1) from the pos of the battery to the pos of the dist, check which is pos before you jump it

2) neg from battery to engine block


then test it and see if itll die, and come back and tell us

just remember, you wont be able to shut off the engine using the key until you pull the jumpers off..

I'm confused about the jumping the whole distributor part... first of all, dont you need the coil to run to the top of the distributor for it to run? so pulling the plug off the top of the cap and running a hot from the battery to it, I dont know how that would work... along with where/how I would ground it...

Second, you said it wont turn off with the key if the distributor is jumped as you described? Well if you turn the key off, doesnt the ECM then cut off the fuel pump? The jumped distributor would offer spark to no fuel wouldn't it?

I'm not clear as to "how" to jump the distributor insight? I didnt know a distributor has a pos/neg connection, I tought it just has the cap at the top that goes from the coil, and the plug for the stator/cam sensor...

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Unread 10-23-2009, 09:55 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo12227 View Post
I'm confused about the jumping the whole distributor part... first of all, dont you need the coil to run to the top of the distributor for it to run? so pulling the plug off the top of the cap and running a hot from the battery to it, I dont know how that would work... along with where/how I would ground it...

Second, you said it wont turn off with the key if the distributor is jumped as you described? Well if you turn the key off, doesnt the ECM then cut off the fuel pump? The jumped distributor would offer spark to no fuel wouldn't it?

I'm not clear as to "how" to jump the distributor insight? I didnt know a distributor has a pos/neg connection, I tought it just has the cap at the top that goes from the coil, and the plug for the stator/cam sensor...

the purpose of jumping the dist is to back feed the electrical system to see if in fact its an electrical SHORT or a wire is loosing connection, the differance being, a short will still stall the engine, a loose connection will let it run while being backfed, a 12v system doesnt know which direction the voltage is coming from, in a normal situation, power leaves the battery and goes to the ignition switch forst, then the rest of the jeep, but in this case, were BACK feeding the voltage to the jeep first and the ignition last, hence backfeeding... it is important that everything stays plugged in, DO NOT unplug anything and jump it, strip a tiny little piece of insulation off and wrap a wire around it and tape it later

as far as the distributor connection, NOT the coil wire, look down onto the body of the dist, NOT the cap, on the side of the dist their are 2 wires.. one of them is a positive feed, check which one using a test light with the ignition on, the test light will glow when you hit the positive wire, the other wire is a pulse feed for the electronics, it wouldnt do anything to the test light, and connect it straight to battery and use another wire, or better yet, use a jumper cable and ground the engine block and jeep body to the battery

use BOTH clamps on the negative terminal and run one to the engine block, and the other to the body, somewhere where you can get a good ground, like right next to the battery, theirs a bolt with wires bolted to it, thats one of the body grounds, so for clarification, youre now using both red and black of the jumper cables to supply a ground to the jeep

after you start it, test it, during these tests it might stay running with the grounds connected, so jump out and remove the engine ground, test again, and one by one removing each jumper from the engine, body and dist to help us pinpoint what kind of problem you have, if by the end of the test you realize that it ran till you disconnected the dist, then your jeep is losing power from both the alternator AND battery at the same time.. meaning only 2 wiires are suspect or the main fuse panel next to the battery

knowing what kind of ground or power fault you have can help us help you fix it

also... a bad ground to the fuel pump wouldnt just kill the engine like that,, it would sputter and die due to residual pressure in the system, youre problem sounds like an ignition cut of sorts
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Unread 10-23-2009, 10:02 PM   #63
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Thanks bro, I got a now, i'll peform your test and the other one mentioned tomorrow morning, thanks for clarifying! I'm still learning *.* i'm so used to carb'ed engines without picky ignitions!
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Unread 10-24-2009, 05:10 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Its not the ECM with the forward or reverse issue being the symptom. The jumpers were to insure that the power was not being dropped by the PCM to the relay contols. The next thing I was going to have you try is to jump power to those real slots directly from the battery. After I reread your post I am wondering if I am looking in the right area. You still have the 11 code that is being set everytime this occurs. You need to make sure.

Next thing is to do a quick crawl underneath the heap and disconnect the harness that goes to the trans. Also, in the PDC remove 5 - its a 10 amp for the trans. That effectively isolates the trans. Start and see if oyu still have the issue. ((THIS IS THE ONLY TEST I DID TODAY ON THIS POST... I will do the others later))

Last is the final step for the relays that eliminates the steering column. Jumper both the fuel pump and ASD relays output terminals that you jumpered before directly to the battery at the same time. I know its a little intimidating but the only thing you are eliminating the entire steering column.

One of these will make a difference and will tell you where to look next.

Oh yeah...disconnect the nuetral saftey switch after its running....LOL wont start without it

Hey, so i've got news on the test for isolating the transmission... I unplugged the harness from the tranny and also removed the fuse that's in the relay box, there are only two size "10" fuzes in the relay box, one it says is for the horn, the other is for the "I.O.D" I dont know what an IOD is but I hope that is the fuse you are talking about for the tranny...

As for the results, after starting, unplugging, then driving around, It worked for longer than usualy but it DID eventually cut off, I tried agian just to make sure and again only made it about half a mile... I got out, plugged it back in, and drove in reverse for over a mile through my neighborhood without it cutting out, then I put her in drive and drove around for 9+ miles without any issues... So I dont know what this tells me, but it was still cutting off with the tranny isolated but never cut off once I hooked things back up... HOWEVER, MY SPEDOMETER IS GOING INSANE NOW, it is jumping up to 60+ miles per hour when i'm only doing 10-20, its bouncing everywhere, it wasnt doing this before, I dont know what this means...

As of right now, its acting like the whole dang problem is fixed, but as when I replaced the distributor and crank sensor for the first time, I have a feeling that in a couple of hours if I were to go try to drive it again, it will start doing it again... I'll let you guys know if it does it again once I test it again around 7-8 eastern...

Again, stalled once I isolated tranny, didnt stall once I hooked it all back up and drove in reverse for a while then foward... and speedometer is going insane now...

I'll be doing the other tests mentioned above here in a while but I have to run to town... (also, i replaced the ignition switch (for the actual key) and it had no effect)
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Unread 10-24-2009, 08:08 PM   #65
Que89YJ
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There should have been a fuse for the trans. If I am understanding you now the speedo is not working but when everything on the trans is hooked up it is not stalling anymore?
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Unread 10-24-2009, 10:56 PM   #66
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The speedo is bouncing randomly everywhere. Now indeed I was able to drive it for over 10 miles and back home with no problems this was after I removed the harnes from the tranny and hooked it back up after it stalled twice to start it again.. The plug is severely melted and a bit of wire is showing on one of the three wires. HOWEVER when I replaced the crank sensor forever ago it worked forcthree days then I replaced the distributor and it worked for 10 miles or so and figuring it was fixed I drove home and 3 hours later when I left home it did it again after not even fifty feet... So I don't really know if it's fixed or not right now but I was definatly able to drive it further today than I have been in over a month... Don't know if it's a coincidence or something I changed...


I cant figure out how to post pictures on this from my desktop, I took a picture of the harness... however even if it is dammaged its obviously doing it's job by allowing me to start the vehicle, i'm not sure if that harness has the ability to cut off the engine, does it? I know the idle gets VERY low and rough when its hooked up, and it sounds faster and healthier when I unplug it...

I am going to try your other test QU89YJ to bypass the steering column in the morning... Thank you so much for not giving up on me man... I definatly dont mind sending you a check for your help after all of this is over if we get it figured out... Seriously, this jeep is all i've got right now.

Last edited by Apollo12227; 10-24-2009 at 11:06 PM..
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Unread 10-25-2009, 01:41 PM   #67
5.7YJ
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I hope you get it figured out today, it must be driving you nuts!
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Unread 10-25-2009, 10:04 PM   #68
Apollo12227
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I had to go replace and rebuild my brothers clutch for him today and ruined my chance to work on my own stuff... Go figure... Anyway guys I'm going to try to remove this post if it's possible so o don't waste anyones time. I'll perform the rest of the stuff above and if it fixes it I'll be sure to tell you guys... Thanks so much for all the help everyone.. If you google "jeep shuts off while driving" lol this post shows up as the second freaking search result hahah that's how much traffic has moved through this thread... Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to have a look... I'll work on it when I can but I may not be able to put real hours on it till this coming weekend.
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Unread 10-26-2009, 04:43 PM   #69
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Bumping this up.
Did you get it fixed?
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Unread 10-26-2009, 07:02 PM   #70
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No news yet I've still got some things to try then I can post what I've done and if there are any changes... No luck yet
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Unread 10-28-2009, 12:44 PM   #71
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Fixed!!!

Hey everyone, good news, my problem seems to have subsided, at least for the time being .... I have NO IDEA what I did, but I have driven all over the place today and havn't had it stall out once... The only thing i've done is go back and RE CELEAN all the sensor connections along with cleaning the wiring that runs to the transmission (neutral safety switch/reverse lights), the speedometer wiring, etc... This has apparently done something!!!

My speedometer is still shorting out somewhere and jumping around which is still fairly new but my engine hasn't cut out!!!

I'll sow how far this gets me but thanks again EVERYONE for the help... I love this friggen jeep and I sure didnt want to get rid of her lol.

This forum was the only thing that stopped me from selling it! And if I could I would buy everyone who responded to this post a beer lol.
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Unread 10-28-2009, 12:45 PM   #72
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FIXED, at least for now!

Hey everyone, good news, my problem seems to have subsided, at least for the time being .... I have NO IDEA what I did, but I have driven all over the place today and havn't had it stall out once... The only thing i've done is go back and RE CELEAN all the sensor connections along with cleaning the wiring that runs to the transmission (neutral safety switch/reverse lights), the speedometer wiring, etc... This has apparently done something!!!

My speedometer is still shorting out somewhere and jumping around which is still fairly new but my engine hasn't cut out!!!

I'll sow how far this gets me but thanks again EVERYONE for the help... I love this friggen jeep and I sure didnt want to get rid of her lol.

This forum was the only thing that stopped me from selling it! And if I could I would buy everyone who responded to this post a beer lol.
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Unread 10-28-2009, 04:10 PM   #73
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Solved Even Further?!

Hey guys, I found something else pretty awsome as to WHY the heck I was having the problem! When I was chasing the short to the speedometer (as to why it was freaking out), I had the whole harness out that goes toward the rear of the jeep, and WHAT DO YOU KNOW!!! THE TWO WIRES GOING TO THE SPEED SENSOR WERE SMASHED TOGETHER WITH ONE OF THE 3 WIRES THAT GO TO THE FUEL PUMP!!! ....... Why I didnt check this before I have no no idea, but sure one of the wires that bolts off toward the fuel pump was crushed and held together by maybe 4 or 5 THREADS of copper lol... NO WONDER IT RAN WHILE at IDLE but not while DRIVING! lol. I'm finishing up the repair right now and i'll post back with the results, but heck yes, I think this about solves it, wouldn't you guys agree?
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Unread 10-28-2009, 04:14 PM   #74
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I would agree, and I would also be thankful for this wonderful learning opportunity if I were you!

I even learned from it second-hand!

Max
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Unread 10-28-2009, 04:21 PM   #75
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I would agree, and I would also be thankful for this wonderful learning opportunity if I were you!

I even learned from it second-hand!

Max
Absolutly Max, lol this forum saved my jeep, i'll tell you what lol. Cant put the tools in the shed quite yet though lol, my record for being able to drive after the repair is 3 days, so i'll give it a week before tearing down some trails again around my neighborhood lol!

Thanks again guys, you have no idea.
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