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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:04 AM   #1
joey48442
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I found out some stuff with my 1993 2.5

Seats absolutely do interchange side to side. I fou d some nice Sahara seats and swapped them in. You end up with the recline lever on the inside but that's hardly an issue.
I lifted 2 inches useing a zone lift, and I gained three inches over all, due to my tired original leafs.
30 inch tires with the 2.5 is all I would want to do. 70 on the free way is difficult to attain, and almost impossible to maintain if any hill at all. Around town it's fine.
Theses things rust astoundingly.
Driving with the windshield folded is awesome.
The removal of the rear trackbar improved the rear ride *maybe* 15 percent. Don't let the interwebs fool you into thinking its going to make a huge difference. It's not.
I like it a lot better than my similar optioned tj, and my xj and mj.


Joey

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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:23 AM   #2
UltimatE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey48442 View Post
Seats absolutely do interchange side to side. I fou d some nice Sahara seats and swapped them in. You end up with the recline lever on the inside but that's hardly an issue.
I lifted 2 inches useing a zone lift, and I gained three inches over all, due to my tired original leafs.
30 inch tires with the 2.5 is all I would want to do. 70 on the free way is difficult to attain, and almost impossible to maintain if any hill at all. Around town it's fine.
Theses things rust astoundingly.
Driving with the windshield folded is awesome.
The removal of the rear trackbar improved the rear ride *maybe* 15 percent. Don't let the interwebs fool you into thinking its going to make a huge difference. It's not.
I like it a lot better than my similar optioned tj, and my xj and mj.


Joey
Remove your front TB as well and see what the change is. Did you remove the track bar when you had your stock suspension? Or lifted?
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:11 AM   #3
joey48442
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Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post
Remove your front TB as well and see what the change is. Did you remove the track bar when you had your stock suspension? Or lifted?
I thought if you removed the front it would increase the potential for bump steer...?
The front seems pretty smooth, but the rear bounces all over the place. It's really stiff in the back. And the TB was still there with stock leafs, I only removed it after the lift. I drive a few days with it on and decided to take it off.


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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:42 AM   #4
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The only way it would improve resistance to bump steer is if your steering geometry was incorrect in the first place, and it would mask the symptoms, not fix it. Fixing the issue would be to get your geometries correct. Check out this thread for all the info you could need on the subject:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...e-well-953630/

As for the rear being bouncy, did you set your new suspension up correctly? Should have everything (leaf eye bolts, shackles, and shocks) just snug, then put the Jeep on all fours and cycle the suspension. Jump up and down on the rear bumper a couple times, then let it settle. Now torque everything to spec. When torquing your leaf springs and shackles, take note of how much the bushings compress. They should only compress a very little bit, then tighten up on the metal sleeve inside the bushing. If the shackles or spring hanger compress a lot (more than say 1/16") then the metal sleeve is too short and allowing the suspension to bind by tightening up on the bushing instead of the sleeve. I have that issue right now on my YJ with new BDS springs. The sleeves in the spring eye bushing are too short and they bound up. The ones on the shackle tightened up nicely. I'll have to make longer sleeves for the spring eye bushings so it doesn't bind.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #5
joey48442
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Ah, interesting. So possibly a drop pitman arm would help things, if I removed the front trackbar? What I was worried about with the bump steer is the angle of the drag link, it's length would effectively change as the suspension compressed, so it would be as though I turned the wheels slightly. I suppose the drop pitman arm would negate that. I didn't know a drop pitman was necessary on a two inch lift.

As for the shackles sleeves, that's entirely possible, as my lift was made by zone, and allegedly zone is part of bds.

I used exactly the method you described to tighten things up. Perhaps new sleeves are in order. Is there a place to buy bulk sleeves? What length did you cut your too?

Thanks for the info,


Joey


Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post
The only way it would improve resistance to bump steer is if your steering geometry was incorrect in the first place, and it would mask the symptoms, not fix it. Fixing the issue would be to get your geometries correct. Check out this thread for all the info you could need on the subject:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...e-well-953630/

As for the rear being bouncy, did you set your new suspension up correctly? Should have everything (leaf eye bolts, shackles, and shocks) just snug, then put the Jeep on all fours and cycle the suspension. Jump up and down on the rear bumper a couple times, then let it settle. Now torque everything to spec. When torquing your leaf springs and shackles, take note of how much the bushings compress. They should only compress a very little bit, then tighten up on the metal sleeve inside the bushing. If the shackles or spring hanger compress a lot (more than say 1/16") then the metal sleeve is too short and allowing the suspension to bind by tightening up on the bushing instead of the sleeve. I have that issue right now on my YJ with new BDS springs. The sleeves in the spring eye bushing are too short and they bound up. The ones on the shackle tightened up nicely. I'll have to make longer sleeves for the spring eye bushings so it doesn't bind.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 07:00 AM   #6
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I made the sleeves for my shocks. I made them specific to those bushings, so I don't think a specific number would work. I think the bushings were slightly over 1.500" wide, so I made the sleeve to just under 1.5" and it worked nicely. I haven't done the leaf bushings yet.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 09:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post
I made the sleeves for my shocks. I made them specific to those bushings, so I don't think a specific number would work. I think the bushings were slightly over 1.500" wide, so I made the sleeve to just under 1.5" and it worked nicely. I haven't done the leaf bushings yet.
I checked everything out yesterday, actually loosened the shackle and hanger and leaf spring bolts until they were finger tight, and took a test drive. Still road very stiff. So I tightened them back to specs. 75 foot pounds for shackles and 90 for hangers, according to instructions. I'm going to get a drop pitman arm so I can ditch the front trackbar.


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Unread 09-01-2013, 10:25 AM   #8
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You can remove the front trackbar even before you get a drop pitman arm.

And how can you say that the rear ride was only improved 15%? What scale are you using to determine percentages of ride quality? Please explain.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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15% could be considered a huge number, would like a detailed explanation of how you came to this conclusion as well...

For me, when I pulled both the front and rear, not only was the offroad ride quality improved, but onroad was also improved. Small little bumps in the road felt like they disappeared to me.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 10:52 AM   #10
joey48442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
You can remove the front trackbar even before you get a drop pitman arm.

And how can you say that the rear ride was only improved 15%? What scale are you using to determine percentages of ride quality? Please explain.
15% is just a WAG, I have no actual way to measure... I do know it went from very very stiff, to slightly less very stiff!

I don't understand, though, how you could go without the pitman arm, as the draglink ends up on a different angle thank the axle, so, just like the track bar, as the axle moves up, it pushes the bar over, changing the direction if the front wheels..., correct? But then again there is so little movement of my front axle up and down I don't think that would be an issue!


Thanks guys,
Joey
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Unread 09-01-2013, 11:18 AM   #11
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My interest in this thread just dropped 75%
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Unread 09-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #12
joey48442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
My interest in this thread just dropped 75%
I don't understand... Why?


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Unread 09-01-2013, 12:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey48442 View Post
I don't understand... Why?


Joey
Well, you did half a job (only one trackbar off) and then gave a bogus percentile on how you felt about driving it afterwards all while telling people that those who have experienced running the jeep sans both trackbars don't matter. Ironically by telling people on the Internet not to believe what you read on the Internet.

I think you should probably wait with the opinion until after you finish the job instead of jumping the gun. Wanna see some real numbers? Real Yj flex on a stock Yj can lift the front tire nine inches before the rear tire lifts and you lose traction. With no trackbars and no swaybars, you can lift the front tire 18" before you lift the rear tire. That's 200% articulation compared to stock. You can't measure what it feels like other than this scale:

Before
After

Also a 200% increase in the arc of the lips. Sometimes it even shows teeth in a smile which is scientifically mind blowing.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 12:57 PM   #14
joey48442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
Well, you did half a job (only one trackbar off) and then gave a bogus percentile on how you felt about driving it afterwards all while telling people that those who have experienced running the jeep sans both trackbars don't matter. Ironically by telling people on the Internet not to believe what you read on the Internet.

I think you should probably wait with the opinion until after you finish the job instead of jumping the gun. Wanna see some real numbers? Real Yj flex on a stock Yj can lift the front tire nine inches before the rear tire lifts and you lose traction. With no trackbars and no swaybars, you can lift the front tire 18" before you lift the rear tire. That's 200% articulation compared to stock. You can't measure what it feels like other than this scale:

Before
After

Also a 200% increase in the arc of the lips. Sometimes it even shows teeth in a smile which is scientifically mind blowing.
Sure thing. Sorry I tried to put a number on it. The front rides fine, the rear is very stiff, hence the reason for the half *** job. I didnt want to run jnto bump steer, thats why i didnt take off the front, and was asking for some wisdom about drop pitman arms. The rear is Stiff enough things bounce out of the back. I'm sorry I disagreed with the sage Internet wisdom, I simply did not notice the change I had read about on the Internet. I did follow the suggestions that were made to see if possibly the bushings were tightened to much.

I still don't understand the bump steer thing, but no worries, ill fool with that later.

I do wonder how you know my percentile is bogus, I have a 1 in 100 chance of being correct


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Unread 09-01-2013, 01:01 PM   #15
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You do have a 1% chance of being correct, I will give you that. As for your drop pitman arm situation, you shouldn't need one until you get to about four inches. If you do have a serious steering issue, its probably not related to your drag link angle and may have to do with the caster angle or worn tie rod ends. A stock Cherokee arm is a drop for a Yj if you feel the need to go bigger. I came to the same conclusion on the seats as we dropped a lightly used passenger seat in place of a heavily worn drivers seat in my buddy's Yj.
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