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Unread 08-30-2010, 04:40 PM   #91
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
After I placed the PDC temporarily at several places, I concluded that this would be the best location. I don't need the original jack, it is a joke anyway.
jeep-progress-8-29-2010-022.jpg


Things are finally starting to take shape. I was finally able to start running the split wrap! I still have some more to do, but the major bulk of the job is done!
jeep-progress-8-29-2010-026.jpg
jeep-progress-8-29-2010-028.jpg


Just like the TCU, I had to locate a good area for the PCM. After several different ways and places, I decided that this place is just as good as any other place. Besides, it was easier to access the fasteners here.
jeep-progress-8-29-2010-029.jpg


I am actually getting close enough to throw a battery in there and start it up! I still have to locate a few parts, but they will be coming in due time. I should be able to get this Jeep on the road before the snow flies, well down here anyways. It already snowed in our mountains last night.

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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-02-2010, 12:06 PM   #92
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
For the last two nights I have been working on getting the engine started. I wanted to see if it would run before I decided to perform any more work on it.

The night before last, I had to jump the battery as that it was 4 years old (it came out of my wife's JK) and couldn't hold a charge. I dumped a little fuel into the throttle body to prime it, I can turn the engine over and I would get a lot of popping and backfires out of the intake. I verified that the #1 cylinder was on the firing stroke at TDC, dist rotor was at #1 position, and I had spark.

Long story short. After rotating the dist a tooth or two back and forth, I came up with an idea. I decided to pull all the spark plug wires and shift them 180 degrees, ie. placing the #1 cylinder onto #6 on the dist cap. After priming the engine again, I got fire! I got the jeep to run for two to three seconds on each prime.

Now to determine why my fuel pump isn't running.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-02-2010, 07:44 PM   #93
papashaps1
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle Pennsylvania
Posts: 46
Hey man, I have been working on my 87 YJ for almost a year and I just put the motor back in and have been trying to figure out wiring. Thanks for the help, your thread is great and one to be part of going forward. Keep up the great work and sharing.
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Unread 09-03-2010, 09:40 AM   #94
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashaps1 View Post
Hey man, I have been working on my 87 YJ for almost a year and I just put the motor back in and have been trying to figure out wiring. Thanks for the help, your thread is great and one to be part of going forward. Keep up the great work and sharing.
Thanks. I appreciate that!

I guess you could say that my build is in real time. You get to see the progress as I work. I am also learning what is working, and what needs attention.

Just last night, I have determined that I had a power drain when I turn the key on. I have checked all wiring going to the ignition switch, but I still have to figure out which wire is the culprit coming out of the switch, then I can determine the part that is draining the battery. Hopefully, this will also answer my question as to why my fuel pump isn't getting power. Otherwise, I can get it to start and run for a couple seconds at a time on every prime.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-07-2010, 03:19 PM   #95
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
On my last post, I had stated that I had a power drain when I turn the key on, plus my fuel pump did not work. After the weekend of working on it, I have them both figured out!

First off, there was to be a ground wire for the instrument panel to be connected to position B4 of the bulkhead connector. I did not pay much attention to the other side of the connector until just yesterday, when I noticed an orange wire appearing to have been heating up. It comes from the Ignition sw. and goes to some of the engine functions for the old 4.2L. I clipped the ground wire back off and discovered that I no longer have a power drain, plus, the fuel pump would run normal. I was stoked!

(More later).
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-07-2010, 04:02 PM   #96
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
My battery was more than dead, it was gone. It will no longer hold a charge. So I continued to jump the Jeep with my truck. I turn the key and I hear the fuel pump run for a second to pressurize the system, I then crank it over and I get not much anything. I dump some gas down the throttle body, then I turn the engine over, I get the Jeep to run for a couple seconds. This occured several times, until one shot where I got the Jeep running for about twenty seconds. I was so thrilled! But I had a problem, it ran like an engine where the gas was stepped on and let off continuously, while I had my foot on it in one position. After it stalled, I could no longer get it to run again. It looks like that tonight I will have to perform a fuel flow and pressure test to see how well the fuel pump is working.

At least now I know that it has potential. I just found out earlier today that the engine has been just rebuilt before I picked it up. That could be one explanation why my #1 cylinder fires on the #6 terminal on the distributor cap. I cannot simply rotate the distributor as that it is an odd tooth count (of 13). It will be 1/2 a tooth off if I were to pull it and reinstall it 180 degrees.

More to come...
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-17-2010, 11:51 AM   #97
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
Update!

Everything checks out as far as ignition timing, distributor rotor placement, and timing set placement. When I crank over the engine for a short burst (up to 20 seconds) I can hear the slight backfire noises within the intake and the exhaust manifolds. I put my hand on them and I can feel some heat. I know that I am getting fuel and spark. My new idea to look at is the placement of the new flexplate and see where it is sitting in relation to TDC and the crankshaft position sensor. My bet is that the camshaft position sensor is sending the spark on time correctly, but the crankshaft position sensor is picking up the pulse off-time by 60 degrees. It is also my belief that the crankshaft position sensor is the one that triggers the fuel delivery injector pulse. When I picked up this Jeep, the original flex plate was busted, so there was no reference point as to where to reinstall it at (one of six positions). I will check this out over the weekend.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-20-2010, 07:18 PM   #98
x99j
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 447
sounds like you are on the right track!
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06 kj 3.7l, 6speed manual, np241 command track

91 yj 2.5l, ax-5, np 231 3 inck lift, 31'' mud rovers

12 kk 3.7L, 42rle, mp1522, d-30, 8.25.
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Unread 09-21-2010, 11:55 AM   #99
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by x99j View Post
sounds like you are on the right track!
Thanks! I believe that I found the culprit! I purchased a flex plate for an'88 XJ 4.0L, where the '91+ uses a different part no. I used Checker Auto Parts as my first mistake. They informed me that all years used the same part number. I went to Carquest and asked a friend of mine for a favor and compare the two. We found some pics of the two, and discovered that they are indeed different from each other. The '88-'89 tone ring has several small windows with three 2" windows, where as the '91-'99 tone ring is solid with three sets of four 1" windows. I just placed the order through Carquest today. I won't see the new flexplate until This Friday or Monday.

Since I need to remove my transfer case and reclock it anyway, I just might as well kill two birds with one stone.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 09-23-2010, 10:47 AM   #100
x99j
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Location: ohio
Posts: 447
sounds like you are right! the 88 xj had renix fuel injection and the 91+ xj had the chrysler fuel injection! thats why the flex plates are different.
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06 kj 3.7l, 6speed manual, np241 command track

91 yj 2.5l, ax-5, np 231 3 inck lift, 31'' mud rovers

12 kk 3.7L, 42rle, mp1522, d-30, 8.25.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 03:42 PM   #101
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
I finally have the flexplates swapped around. I originally had installed one for an '88, the same year as the tranny. The engine and PCM are from a '93, so is the CKS. I bought and installed the flexplate for a '91 and newer ('93 to be exact). While I had the tranny out I went ahead and reclocked the transfer case. I ran the auto tranny fluid lines and tucked them up where they will hopefully survive what I throw at them. Pics coming soon.

After wrapping up this procedure, I went to start the Jeep and I still got the same results. I can turn the engine over with no problems. I have spark at the right time, I have fuel entering the intake (I can tell by the fuel smell). It is obviously firing the fuel mix, I can tell this by the warmth coming off the intake and exhaust manifolds) but still it won't run. I have checked the spark timing by hooking up my timing light and cranking it over. It fires on or about two to four degrees before TDC. The fuel pump builds up pressure and adequate flow, based on my test earlier.

My next thing to explore is the PCM grounds. I am thinking that one is grounded directly to the engine, the one that the PCM controls for the Injectors, MAP sensor (and other engine controls). I will go through my wiring diagrams again and see what I have done wrong. In the mean time I will be until I get this figured out.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 10-04-2010, 05:14 PM   #102
Tompatt
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Macon / Carrollton, Georgia
Posts: 2,793
its getting very simplified. i like it.
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-1987 YJ
Jeep Build
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Unread 10-12-2010, 11:28 AM   #103
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
I have still have not been able to get this thing started! I checked out my theory on the DK Green/Or. wire from pin #57 to the Alternator. Before hand, Iwas trying to start the engine without hooking up a belt (I did not have the water pump pulley). I found a water pump pulley, measured and bought a serpentine belt and installed them, then tried to start my Jeep. No such luck. I am now focusing on the wiring conversion for the transmission TCU, Gear Selector Switch and the firewall. I am going to check to see if I am still getting power to the PDC and the ECM while I am cranking the engine over. I will make myself a list of options and go through them one by one, by process of elimination, until I either have results, or other...

If others out there have any ideas, feel free to drop in and let me know.
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Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 10-13-2010, 10:46 AM   #104
remmons
Some assembly required.
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vernal, Utah
Posts: 1,829
I managed to find some time over the last couple days to work on my Jeep. I had made up a list of items to check out.

This is a copy of the list that I followed last night and the night before. The first part is for the PCM only.

PCM WIRE FUNCTION RESULTS
Pin loc. Color

3 red battery good
4 blk/lt blu sens ground good
5 blk/wh sig gnd good
6 voi/wht sens 5v supply good
7 orange sens 8v supply good
9 dk. Blu ign start/run good
10 dk blu/wht power steering sens N/A (4cyl only)
11 blk/tan ground good
22 org/dk. Blu TPS good
24 gry/blk CKS good
29 wht/pnk brake sw in good
30 brn/yel neutral sense good
43 gry/lt.blu tach signal not checked yet
44 tan/yel CPS good

All other pins and wires have either not been checked or added to the list. I am focusing on the primary system until all checks are complete.

Part two of my list. These are the other systems that I had checked on.

Compression check. All cylinders were in the range of 85-110 PSI (according to the manual, they should be within 75%). They went up to 95-115 PSI when I squirted oil into the cylinders. All cylinders came up on pressure rapidly, so I assume that they are in an acceptable condition.

Power coming from Bulk Head Connector to the PCM and the PDC. Power checked out good on IGN RUN and START.

Power going into the PDC. It checked out good on RUN and START.

Neutral Safety Switch. Checked for normal operation. Checked good.

Distributor rotation. It checked good.

Spark at all plugs by using a test plug. All spark plug wires checked good.

Firing order, rotated all terminals on the distributor cap, then cranked the engine. The only changes noticed were backfiring either through the intake or the exhaust, otherwise, no change.

Checked OHM readings on all fuel injectors. All checked at 14.4-14.7 (avg. 14.6 ohms). They all checked outgood.

Checked for power to Fuel Injector terminals. They checked good.

After all this checking, I was still baffled. So I came up with an idea. I installed my starter jumper switch and set it aside. My timing light decided to fail on me, so I once again unplugged the #1 spark plug wire and installed a test plug. I then disconnected the #1 fuel injector wire plug and installed a test light. I then turned on the key, held the starter button and watched for spark and light, I also observed the pattern between the two. I observed the spark to be about 180 degrees off of the injector pulse. To me this sounds correct since I understand how a 4 cycle engine works.

So the bottom line is this. I am getting SPARK and FUEL INJECTOR pulse. I have fuel going to the fuel rail. I may have to perform another FUEL PRESSURE and FLOW test. But this is what further baffles me is that I can dump some gas down the throttle body and STILL get no fire.

So if anyone has an idea to throw at me, please do so. I feel that Iam soooo close to getting this thing to run.
__________________
Robert.
Dinosaurland, Utah.

Sign at an old salvage yard,
"All parts have been road tested."
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Unread 10-13-2010, 01:45 PM   #105
Curly5759
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1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 634
@ remmons:
sounds like you have all the bases covered, you have spark, fuel and compression, so technically it should run. What about spark plugs fuel fouled from all the cranking and testing? Have you looked at them lately?
I suggest you pull and inspect the plugs, clean and dry them as needed. Reinstall, then disconnect the injectors or fuel pump. Pour some fuel in the intake, see if it will run. I am thinking you can eliminate fuel injector/fuel system problems this way. If it still won't fire, then it is most likely an ignition issue. Could the distributor be off one or two teeth?

Curly
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