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Unread 08-10-2011, 08:24 AM   #1
jhumphrey
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Howell Fuel Injection: Emissions vs Offroad Kit

Hey all,

Im starting to put back cash for the Howell Kit for my YJ. Im currently running a 2150 and have had it with the cold start issue. Ill have FI by the end of the year . Well, that's the plan

Anyway, on their website they have two different kits: an emissions legal one and an offroad one. I dont have emissions in my area, so would the offroad one be a better way to go? I presume that the emissions one will sacrifice something in order to make it compliant, but I could be wrong.

Emissions kit is also $100 more.

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Unread 08-10-2011, 08:40 AM   #2
jbolty
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Personally I would spend the extra $100. Who's to say the smog law won't change for you? Or, you may move elsewhere and have to get it passed.

I have the CA version and the difference between the previous carb is about 1000% improvement. You can do an HEI distributor at the same time and get rid of nearly all the underhood wiring at the same time.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 08:46 AM   #3
jhumphrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
Personally I would spend the extra $100. Who's to say the smog law won't change for you? Or, you may move elsewhere and have to get it passed.

I have the CA version and the difference between the previous carb is about 1000% improvement. You can do an HEI distributor at the same time and get rid of nearly all the underhood wiring at the same time.
I was thinking about getting the emissions one, but if it is going to sacrifice something, I would forgo it. It would also leave me some cash to do the HEI upgrade, but I have Team Rush'ed mine already...though I hear the HEI is "better".

My main issue is Im tired of fooling with my carb. Ive never liked carbs and the 2150 is still having its cold start issue. Ive tried everything I could to no avail. So, Im getting rid of it ASAP and putting the FI on.

For someone with moderate mechanical ability, how hard is it to install yourself? I just need to know how long it takes, so I can get an idea of how much a mechanic would cost me if I cant do it myself.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 09:08 AM   #4
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Took me most of a weekend, you could do it in less time but I went really slow and made a major deal or of the wiring. See my thread in the FAQ.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...ts-pix-475037/


I have been really happy with the HEI I got from CRT performance. A few months ago there were a few guys that reported having trouble with the vacuum advance and the company was really, really slow in responding and taking care of them. Not sure what happened after that but it did sour me on the company a little. But, up until then there had been a string of all good reports. Do a little research before buying.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 09:17 AM   #5
jhumphrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
Took me most of a weekend, you could do it in less time but I went really slow and made a major deal or of the wiring. See my thread in the FAQ.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...ts-pix-475037/


I have been really happy with the HEI I got from CRT performance. A few months ago there were a few guys that reported having trouble with the vacuum advance and the company was really, really slow in responding and taking care of them. Not sure what happened after that but it did sour me on the company a little. But, up until then there had been a string of all good reports. Do a little research before buying.
Thanks. I added your FAQ to my FI install research folder

I am leery of the electrical wiring. While I understand basic wiring and have had success doing my own electrical work, it just seems like a lot of involvement and a lot of "your jeep could be different" in Howells instructions. I also have to admit that I cant read wiring diagrams.

I see from your FAQ that you remove quite a bit of wiring. Thats what makes me nervous about it. That loom is full of wires that I have no idea where they go or what they do. Im afraid to start ripping stuff out.

A lot of my engine bay has been cleaned up from where I did the 2150 install, so I know installing the FI wont be to hard (or messy). Just the wiring . It looks like you removed most of everything from that loom and put the cover back on. Did you install your ECM where the old ECM was (under the dash)? How were the instructions for you on cleaning out the harness?
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Unread 08-10-2011, 09:19 AM   #6
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I am not a fan of detonation and the HEI dizzy provides too much advance thus provides plenty of detonation. I personaly know someone on this forum that has had to rebuild his motor because of it.
I can see going stealth hei for those that are not a fan of the ICM but I would never use a HEI dizzy unless it was limited to 34* total advance.

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Unread 08-10-2011, 09:28 AM   #7
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The Howell harness is totally self contained and every plug is well marked. As for the rest of the wires, trace every one that comes from the old computer and get rid of it as well as whatever is on the other end since it will no longer be doing anything. The instructions say nothing about removing the old wires but I would never leave a fully disconnected mess under teh hood; neat and clean wiring is my obsession. Mount the ecm in the stock location and the OBD plug under the dash.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty
The Howell harness is totally self contained and every plug is well marked. As for the rest of the wires, trace every one that comes from the old computer and get rid of it as well as whatever is on the other end since it will no longer be doing anything. The instructions say nothing about removing the old wires but I would never leave a fully disconnected mess under teh hood; neat and clean wiring is my obsession. Mount the ecm in the stock location and the OBD plug under the dash.
I agree, I'd like it to be as clean as possible. I'm just skittish on cutting wires, especially as many as your pic seems to show coming out. Does having a nutter bypass done make a difference in cutting some wires?
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Unread 08-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #9
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I never did a nutter on mine but I believe that still uses the ignition module so there would be a couple more wires. After I did my howell the thing ran way, way better but did not really get great until the HEI. But there are other options too. As Stroker mentioned above, some are not HEI fans; mine works for me but there are pros and cons to everything. Team Rush, TFI and some others that will give you a better stronger spark than the original duraspark.

Remember Howell is fuel delivery only, it has nothing to do with anything else.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 10:52 AM   #10
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I love the Howell Injection on mine, and I agree for the $100 I'd get the emission legal version. But you likely will never need it, so maybe personal preference should heed there.

I personally also like my HEI ignition. If you go that route, DO NOT buy the cheap eBay HEI's those are known to cause problems and have crappy cam gears that will lead to problems. I personally have never heard of a problem that wasn't directly related to the cheap gears, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 11:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timatoe
I love the Howell Injection on mine, and I agree for the $100 I'd get the emission legal version. But you likely will never need it, so maybe personal preference should heed there.

I personally also like my HEI ignition. If you go that route, DO NOT buy the cheap eBay HEI's those are known to cause problems and have crappy cam gears that will lead to problems. I personally have never heard of a problem that wasn't directly related to the cheap gears, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
I've done the team rush on it and noticed an improvement. If I do the hei upgrade, I'll be sure use quality parts
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Unread 08-10-2011, 11:37 AM   #12
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Have you considered a junk yard TBI install? With Howell you will get a system that controls fuel only, not spark, and it has no speed sensor. The Howell system they sell uses the same gm ECM you can find in nearly any junkyard and the same rebuilt GM throttle body that is available everywhere as well. What you don't get with the Howell system is any ingnition control so consequently you remain with your normal mechanical spark and advance. For less than half the money you can end up with a better TBI system. Not knocking Howell as they give great support, have a good product and you basically only have to plug everything in, so for someone not really interested in putting something together themselves the system is nearly one source, plug and play (not entirely, but nearly).
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Unread 08-10-2011, 11:39 AM   #13
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Have you considered a junk yard TBI install? With Howell you will get a system that controls fuel only, not spark, and it has no speed sensor. The Howell system they sell uses the same gm ECM you can find in nearly any junkyard and the same rebuilt GM throttle body that is available everywhere as well. What you don't get with the Howell system is any ingnition control so consequently you remain with your normal mechanical spark and advance. For less than half the money you can end up with a better TBI system. Not knocking Howell as they give great support, have a good product and you basically only have to plug everything in, so for someone not really interested in putting something together themselves the system is nearly one source, plug and play (not entirely, but nearly).
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Unread 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berniebikes
Have you considered a junk yard TBI install? With Howell you will get a system that controls fuel only, not spark, and it has no speed sensor. The Howell system they sell uses the same gm ECM you can find in nearly any junkyard and the same rebuilt GM throttle body that is available everywhere as well. What you don't get with the Howell system is any ingnition control so consequently you remain with your normal mechanical spark and advance. For less than half the money you can end up with a better TBI system. Not knocking Howell as they give great support, have a good product and you basically only have to plug everything in, so for someone not really interested in putting something together themselves the system is nearly one source, plug and play (not entirely, but nearly).
I've heard about putting your own kit together from junkyard parts. I have a couple of issues with it. One, you don't really know what you're getting from junked parts and two, not sure what all I need to make it work. I don't have any junkyards around me, so that's an issue as well.
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Unread 08-10-2011, 01:20 PM   #15
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I went the junkyard route and had a few issues, though they were relatively minor and not necessarily related to the 'junkyard'. Took more time to gather everything and get my wiring harness together than anything else. I bought new electrical components as mostly they are cheap, and it's good insurance. I rebuilt the throttle body, and the injectors were good and worked, but I had to replace the idle air control valve (proved bad when I went to start stuff up). Mostly what you get from the junkyard is the harness, the throttle body (which you rebuild), the ecm (which you test and know if it good before you start) and some sensors which are mostly cheap and replaceable. You buy the fuel pump, speed sensor, O2 sensor, and ignition module and any connectors necessary. From there, it's a matter of putting it all together. Sounds worse than it is. Anyway, good luck, you'll be happy not messing with the cold start and carb.
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