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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #1
mikes95YJ
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high steer knuckle or z bar?

so which is better z bar or high steer knuckle? i dont know much about either so ANY info about either will greatly help me. pros and cons, prices, and which is better in the end are all im worried about but i am looking to learn as much as possible. my specs: SOA with shackle reversal 1.5" rubicon express leaf springs.
thanks for the help!!

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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:56 PM   #2
Anticanman
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The only thing the z bar is worth is as a zombie basher. Do it right and get proper steering.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:09 PM   #3
mikes95YJ
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http://www.rocky-road.com/yj-high-steer.html this is what i plan on buying but $500 is alot of money for a kid in high school haha. i can afford though
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:17 PM   #4
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If you can afford it then get it. Giggityjeeper seems to like that kit. There are a few more to consider but make sure its done right.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #5
mikes95YJ
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do you know where i can find those other kits? im just looking at the all options. when you said make sure its done right im assuming you mean i install it correctly. im not doing it alone. id be clueless without my uncles help
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #6
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The z style drag link is the wrong way to. Its a lazy approach at a very serious problem.

Here's one
http://www.jb4x4.com/store/jbrsb.htm

Here's the other
http://www.rocky-road.com/yj-high-steer.html

Here's one more
http://www.teraflex.biz/high-steer-system.html
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Unread 03-04-2013, 03:15 PM   #7
mikes95YJ
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so if this was you what would you buy? the kit from rocky road seams like the best option...
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Unread 03-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #8
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I like the rocky road myself.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #9
mikes95YJ
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its cheap and seems very reliable. im pretty sure that what i'll be ordering with mt tax return
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Unread 03-04-2013, 03:38 PM   #10
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Good on you for doing it the correct way. It will be money well spent.

What does the rest of the jeep look like?
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Unread 03-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #11
jsawduste
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Look at post 20
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/p...54/index2.html

Read this
http://www.rctek.com/technical/handl...principle.html

I am guessing that at 17 years old you want your YJ to be a street and trail rig. There is not a high steer kit from any company that incorporates the proper steering geometry.

You have to make your own.

If you don`t believe me then let`s follow up with the 2 time EMC KOH winning LJ of Savvy and Currie...Gerald Lee and John Currie...... Arguably the most successful TJ/LJ ever. Post 925 has a good picture of the steering set up..
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...teaser-37.html

At the expense of loosing a couple inches of ground clearance with the tie rod they thought it to be more important to achieve proper steering geometry.

Here are a few pictures of my set up. Note the tie rod and the SAI (Ackerman) angle. Also the C/L distance of the sector shat to the TRE (pitman arm length) are the same as the ball joint to TRE mount on the high steer arm.


Flat drag link


Again see how the drag link is flat and the Ackerman angle is achieved/maintained ? Also the scrub radius is maintained.


So my tie rod is a couple inches lower. Get over it. The better handling, stability and no bump steer more then make up for it. Intelligent driving keeps the tie rod out of the trail obstacles.

I still have to mount the ram but I am in no hurry. It handles well as it is.

It works for the KOH guys. It`ll work for us low-lifes.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 05:43 PM   #12
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first of all this is all way out of his price range which should be obvious from the OPs posts. its a nice show and tell but not applicable. you cant simply "see how the ackerman angle is achieved." if we are going to be this nit-picky then in order to achieve a very accurate ackerman angle you need to do some math and not simply bolt on a knuckle based on a general manufacturers parameters. dont get me wrong i like what youve done but if you are going to school others then you need to take more into consideration. the reason why using knuckles with tierod arms incorporated like aftermarket and junkyard truck units are only vaguely able to produce a good ackerman angle is that they were originally designed for specific application usually trucks with a different wheelbase. there are several ways to calculate it as well as dong the string method. if you do the calculations and even the simple method then what the knuckle has and what will produce a good angle may not necessarily match. mine did not. i build my own arms from scratch. they too mount the tierod lower then a histeer setup would. most histeer setups pretty much ignore the ackerman angle simply because it is not possible to market a one-size (or angle producing) arm that fits all. there was a time when most hi steer arms were meant primarily for slower offroad use. with KOH and more aggresive offroad styles we are more and more seeing the need for vehicles to combine street accuracy with offroad engineering. actech has produced a 60 arm that takes ackerman into consideration but at this point only when full hydro is used and again its an approximation.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #13
jsawduste
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No it`s not.
One of the kits to move the drag link up above the knuckle and then a tie rod that uses the factory cast in arms. Keeps the Ackerman and flattens out the drag link. Not high steer but a helluva lot better then aftermarket set ups. A few bucks saved now vs. an ill handling vehicle. I don`t get the payoff.

I chose the Reid`s over typical factory Dana 44 knuckles as they were designed around the shorter wheelbase Bronco`s rather then the normal longer wheelbase pickups. Giving a better but still not optimum Ackerman for my application. I`ll live with what I have as it works pretty well.

My point is that with a little understanding of steering principles the OP could choose which way he wanted to go. Add some fab work once he understands the principles of steering and he can have a better handling YJ then most.

IMHO a much better way to go then simply throwing parts on and not understanding how they affect the handling.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 06:14 PM   #14
mikes95YJ
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thanks for all the help but i think ill stick with the kit for now. i dont have the time or intelligence for that complicated stuff now though because the comanche im driving now is about to blow up haha. this is a project from the ground up that has been a steady slow build since about a year ago. i really want this done before i graduate so i can show it off some at school! thanks for all the quick replies though! im sure ill use them in the future. what i have is mainly in my bio. DIY reverse shackles with 1.5" leaf springs SOA. front is a hp dana 30 and rear is ford 8.8 both with 4.88 gears. SYE installed and a 2.5L 4 cylinder for starters. gonna be putting 35's on at the end.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 09:32 PM   #15
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For whenever you get around to it, I would go with the cross-over or hi-steer and not the Z bar.

I run a Teraflex cross over steering system but mine is not a kit. It's been pieced together, custom tie rod, drag link, etc. It took some time and money but I'm happy with it. I still want to get another pitman arm. This one is from a stock TJ.

To note, I do not run an SOA suspension but I can modify my setup for when I do.



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