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Unread 09-10-2011, 12:38 AM   #1
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
HELP!!!!! Nutter By-pass and no spark!

The root of this thread started 3-4 years ago but I will try to just touch on the main points, long story short, A few years back I had to do a 4.0 head swap because my head was cracked, but at that same time (before I got the Jeep running again) I did the nutter by-pass and it has never started since then. I followed the by-pass instructions to the letter. I twisted the spliced in wires, and I reused the same purple and orange wires to the distributor.

Due to a massive amount of other problems in my life (as well as the number of things that need to still be fixed on the Jeep) I didn't work on it much except a couple times a year since I didn't really have the funds to get it back to 100%. The times I tried I couldn't get it to run and was endlessly frustrated because everyone I knew had tried everything they could think of. Then finally some one figured out it wasn't getting spark (well, it was but it wasn't more on that in a sec)

Earlier this year I started to get more opportunities to work on it (lack of funds kept me out of school last semster) and after replacing the coil, cap/rotor, plugs, and wires I finally got the problem traced to not getting spark except when the ignition was released from start/crank to run. So I looked around and found that the problem was likely the ICM.

So a 2 weeks ago I replaced it, and we decided to just try it without the nutter bypass and it had spark enough to backfire all kinds depending on where the dist. was rotated!!!("friends" previous attempts to "fix" the timing left it severely out of time). But, I finally had proof of spark! Well, I was running out of day light and decided that I would set up the nutter by-pass and then the next time I could work on it (I am back in school full time, and due to medical problems generally need help to work on it much).

So tonight, when my buddy could help again, I figured set up the timing and it should fire right up!!

I was wrong !!!!

after finding TDC in cylinder #1 on the compression stroke we go to crank it over and nothing not even a pop. I make sure my carb is primed (last time we had to crank for a while and pump the gas pedal to get it fuel) but there was gas spraying in the carb so that wasn't the problem! So we go to test for spark and nothing until I release the key from start/crank to run! So I am wondering could the nutter by-pass be the cause of ALL MY PROBLEMS!?!?!?!? So I reconnected the ICM wires and still no spark!

I dug around as much as I can on here and the only likely possibility that presented itself is that someone said,"How did you join your wires? Crimp connectors, solder, twisted?

It needs to be a good connection. You can't afford ANY voltage drop on these connections as the signal is only about 1 volt AC."

That was taken from post #5 here

I used crimp on blade connectors so could that be the problem? I am more than interested in replacing them, but what should I use instead?

Also, the fuel in the gas tank is 3-4 years old and doesn't really smell right should it be drained? We tried to siphon it, but couldn't get a hose down the gas filler neck. We tried 2 different hoses, but neither fit. If it needs to be emptied what is the best way to drain it?

After years of having to look a my Jeep sit dead on the side of the house, and I finally have a means (financially and physical labor) to get the Jeep back up and going again, with the fixes it needs, but I need it to run otherwise, well it isn't running and is still useless.

PLEASE HELP ME FIX MY JEEP!!!!

__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 09-10-2011, 09:21 AM   #2
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
9 views and no help? Come on someone must be able to help!!!
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 09-10-2011, 09:30 AM   #3
oldtime_ironman
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 14304 Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 2,540
well, I'm not sure about the electrical stuff (mine is newer) But I am sure that you should drain the gas totally as much as possible.
I've never heard of a nutter bypass going bad, so there must be something else going on. Hang in there and a few guys will be along, I'm sure.

.
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Unread 09-10-2011, 01:22 PM   #4
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
Thanks, hopefully someone will come along soon! I am really frustrated with this.
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 09-10-2011, 01:42 PM   #5
dancytron
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1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: st. louis
Posts: 1,372
Just guesses.

Either solder the connections or use good crimp connectors and a decent crimping tool.

The black wire that runs from the ICM to the distributor is the ground. Follow it to the distributor and make sure it is good. Maybe splice into the middle of it and ground it to the battery.

Look at this link. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/je...-help-1092376/
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Unread 09-10-2011, 02:33 PM   #6
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posts: 510
If it fired a couple weeks ago I am thinking that the ground is functioning, but I will probably add another ground to the block, frame, or block.

And, since it fired before the connections were added to the new ICU I will try fixing the splicing or get it soldered. I have a buddy that can solder pretty well so I will see if he can come over and replace the connections.

I have seen the stuff from jeephammer before, but I know I had good spark before I cut the lines and added the connectors to the system. If that doesn't work I will try going through with the multimeter.
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 09-10-2011, 10:47 PM   #7
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
So, went to replace the crimp connectors with solder when we took the wires out of the loom and I noticed that my buddy, who helped me do the nutter by-pass, apparently tied it into the wrong side of the wire purple and orange wires somehow. So me and a different buddy (1st buddy's brother) fixed the by-pass and went to start it up again. Well no fire still, but now when it is all hooked up and the key is in the "on" position for a while the coil gets REALLY HOT!!! I am wondering could having the ICM hooked up to the ECU side of the purple and orange wires fry the ICM? The ECU shouldn't be putting out power from those lines since I cut the wires going into it so I don't see why it would fry the ICM, but maybe it could? Also, how could I get spark from the system when I replaced the ICM when I tried it without hooking up the orange an purple wires.
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
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Unread 09-11-2011, 06:37 AM   #8
oldtime_ironman
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 14304 Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 2,540
Something's definitely not right, and I wouldn't turn the key on much until you get it figured out. Coil heating up like that is not a good sign, it could be fried out now. I'm going to try and dig out one of the guys here who has a lot more experience with the nutter.

.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 03:30 PM   #9
jeepdude1987
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
Thanks, I believe I removed the connection from the coil. I looked up something where a guy had the same heating up problem with his coil and it turned out to be his ICM so I am really considering that. I think I will look at the Jeephammer ignition trouble shooting thing and try to see if that helps. But, I really think My ICM is somehow toasted.

I know the connection on the coil is 6v, but the power on the wire going into the coil harness is somehow 12v? How could that be unless there is a resistor in the coil harness?
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
jeepdude1987 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-11-2011, 03:50 PM   #10
oldtime_ironman
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 14304 Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 2,540
Yes, there's supposed to be a resistor. IIRC the hot wire to the coil shouldn't be over 8 volts or else its gonna fry the coil. That would be why it got so hot. I forgot the exact size of resistor tho. More than likely your coil and ICM got fried tho, if it was hooked backwards without the resistor - the catalog calls it a ballast.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 07:59 PM   #11
oldtime_ironman
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 14304 Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 2,540
Take a look at this, if it helps any:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/p...-bypass-476720

.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 01:54 AM   #12
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
Yeah, that is what I used to do the bypass, but when my buddy went to splice in the lines(I have arthritis and my back was killing me that day) he spliced to the wires going into the dash (and therefore to the emissions computer). So I am wondering if the ICM would have been getting power where would it have been from? Also, doesn't the power to the coil come from the ICM? So if the ICM had no power how did the coil get any power before? I need to look at some wiring diagrams. I wish I had the dealership shop manual for this.

Heck, I wish I had the time to even sit down with a wiring diagram and think about this problem. School is killing me!
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
jeepdude1987 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-12-2011, 04:24 AM   #13
jeepdude1987
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 510
I was thinking my buddy put the solder on the wires while it was hooked up to the battery one time and we could hear some electrical noise for the second they touched. Would that probably do something to the resistor and/or fry the ICM?
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]1987 Wrangler YJ RED[/COLOR] 4.2 5-speed, NP231, BFG 31x10.5R15 AT/KO on 15x8 gambler wheels.
[COLOR="Yellow"]Caution!!! Under construction!!!!!! Caution!!![/COLOR]
Finishing a 4.0 Cyl.head swap, Just got an AX-15 NP231J combo to replace the busted t-case and craptacular BA10/5. Adding Nutter bypass. Probably more to come before it is back as a DD!
jeepdude1987 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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