Help make my YJ safe, please! - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
Moops
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Help make my YJ safe, please!

Alright, I'm new to this whole Jeep thing. I posted another thread about my missing air filter, and got lots of other advice about my lift(s) that made me a bit anxious about the safety of my new project. So I'm going to post some pics I took today, and if you could give me some idea as to what, if anything, I need to do to keep it from falling apart as I'm driving down the road.

First, a couple of overview shots.








On the other thread I posted, a couple of members asked for some specific pics, so I'm posting them in here since the topic of that thread has been solved.

Overview of the 8.8.


Left-hand attachment point for the rear dif.


Same side.


Same side with the wheel off.


Right-hand side.


Rear driveshaft.


Transfer case attachment for rear shaft.


Looking forward at rear-side of T-Case.


Front spring shackle (driver's side).


I took it to a local 4x4 shop after I got it to make sure it was safe. It sat there for 2 months before he finally got around to working on it. Ultimately he just changed the front driver's side bearing and re-welded the spring attachment points to give me a better pinion/shaft angle.

The body lift is 3", and that is definitely going to go. I'd just as soon go back to stock, but I'm told it's easier to find a 1" polyurethane kit than stock hardware. Either way, it's going to require some welding (which I did once, about 17 years ago) because the back two spacers have punched through the body.

What are the safety concerns with the shackle reversal? It seems pretty common, but I found a few articles saying that short-wheelbase vehicles are dangerous at highway speeds with reversed shackles.

On the other thread, they said I have a transfer case drop. Can you tell from these pics if that is true, and if so, is that good, bad or other?

I forgot to get shots of the front axle, but I'll try to get them tomorrow.

Any info or advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 09:06 PM
Rproject
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I'd be more concerned about driving something with that short of a wheelbase and SOA kit combined with the body lift on the highway than worrying about the reversed shackles. They're minimal compared to everything else. After looking through the pics, I'm not 100% certain that would be street legal in Illinois. You have no front/rear bumpers and where the bumpers should go appears to be greater than 12" off the ground. Those two things alone would make it a trailer queen in these parts.

Short wheelbase + excessive lift = recipe for disaster


My $.02

1996 White ZJ
1987 Maroon YJ (sideways build)
1996 Forest Green XJ

The "sideways" build thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/r...hread-2164793/
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
Moops
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rproject View Post
I'd be more concerned about driving something with that short of a wheelbase and SOA kit combined with the body lift on the highway than worrying about the reversed shackles. They're minimal compared to everything else. After looking through the pics, I'm not 100% certain that would be street legal in Illinois. You have no front/rear bumpers and where the bumpers should go appears to be greater than 12" off the ground. Those two things alone would make it a trailer queen in these parts.

Short wheelbase + excessive lift = recipe for disaster


My $.02
Well, it's probably not street legal here either, but I think it has more to do with the right brake light/turn signal not working, no mirrors, etc. Not sure about the no bumpers thing here in Fla. I'll have to check into that, though. Thanks for the heads-up. If I can't drive it on the street, it isn't much good for anything right now. I can't put the front shaft in until I re-route the exhaust (why someone routed it into the way of the shaft, I don't know), so only two wheeling for now.

Oh, another question. I noticed when I had the rear end jacked up that turning one wheel causes the other to rotate in the opposite direction. How does that work?
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 09:29 PM
DURTY2
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Wheels always spin opposite like that, its the differential. Check out howstuffworks.com. Nice rig!
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 11:01 PM
shagsjeep
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First, congratulations! Nice looking rig.
Yes you do have a drop tcase and that's a good thing. It works with the SYE which you also have. I agree with you on the 3" body, IMO that's a bit much, but that's me. IMO I'd remove 1 or the other, the reverse-a-shackle or the SOA. Together the way it is, it's just a trail rig, not built as a DD or a mall crawler. Everything on it looks right though.
I'd go with a 1" daystart body lift & maybe remove the reverse-a-shackle.

1989 Jeep wrangler YJ. 4.2L 258 in-line6, front dana 30 rear dana 35?? NP231 nothing fancy yet.
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 01:16 AM
Michaelgoesrawr
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What does your steering look like?

The reversal has mixed opinions. It will be easier to undo than the SOA. And cheaper because you shouldn't need a shorter drive shaft when you're done.

Adopt your pets. Don't shop for them.
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moops View Post
re-welded the spring attachment points to give me a better pinion/shaft angle.
Remove the body lift and go stock. any auto parts store should have the stock bushings you need.

FYI- u-bolts are a one time use item. Yours have been taken off and re-installed by the shop. Check them every so often to make sure they are tight. sometimes when re-used there are no issues. Most of the time they will loosen over time.

The pinion angle was set with the T-case drop in place. Now you can't remove it with out cutting those perches off and re-welding them again. Leave the t-case drop in place and go wheeling.


Have fun
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 07:21 AM
b_a_mech
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[QUOTE=Moops;13787228]Well, it's probably not street legal here either, but I think it has more to do with the right brake light/turn signal not working, no mirrors, etc. Not sure about the no bumpers thing here in Fla. I'll have to check into that, though. Thanks for the heads-up. If I can't drive it on the street, it isn't much good for anything right now. I can't put the front shaft in until I re-route the exhaust (why someone routed it into the way of the shaft, I don't know), so only two wheeling for now.


Nice Rig....IMHO I would loose the body lift...going to 1' would be a good set up and get you closer to a DD option.

As for the Bumper thing: FL Statutes - Title XXIII Motor Vehicles Section 316.001 Short title.
Legal Research Home > Florida Laws > Motor Vehicles > Florida Laws: FL Statutes - Title XXIII Motor Vehicles Section 316.001 Short title.

316.251 Maximum bumper heights.
(1) Every motor vehicle of net shipping weight of not more than 5,000 pounds shall be equipped with a front and a rear bumper such that when measured from the ground to the bottom of the bumper the maximum height shall be as follows:

NET WEIGHT

FRONT REAR

Automobiles for private use:
Net weight of less than 2,500 pounds 22" 22"

Net weight of 2,500 pounds or more,
but less than 3,500 pounds 24" 26"

Net weight of 3,500 pounds or more 27" 29"


Trucks:
Net weight of less than 2,000 pounds 24" 26"

Net weight of 2,000 or more,
but not more than 3,000 pounds 27" 29"

Net weight of 3,000 pounds,
but not more than 5,000 pounds 28" 30"

And for mirror's: Originally Posted by leg.state.fl.us
Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES

Chapter 316
STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL

View Entire Chapter

316.294 Mirrors.--Every vehicle, operated singly or when towing any other vehicle, shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of the motor vehicle. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

So bumpers are a good thing and easy to come up with
And as long as to have a rear view mirror on your front winshield your good to go on driving with the doors off......as long as your not towing anything, then you need to put one on drivers side to keep from getting pulled over anyway

have fun with it

BUILT NOT BOUGHT #602 / ZOMBIE RESPONSE TEAM #40 / USN HULL #196
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 07:38 AM
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Look at your rear brake line. That is not the right way to run brake lines. The hardlines should not be floating and should not move when the suspension does.

Please take pics of where that line is going and what its attached to at the top. We can walk you through a simple fix. brake lines are stupid easy to address.
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 08:16 AM
notmyj
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First, please post a pic of the front axle, showing the steering setup as this is vitally important to a safe SOA conversion.

From what I can see...

-Rear brake lines are not right. The "right" way to fix them would be to get an extended YJ hose that goes from the frame to the axle, use a Ford Explorer passenger side rear brake hose on each each rear caliper and run hard line along the axle to tie them into the YJ hose. You may need to tack weld a bolt to the axle to mount the caliper hose. Not a big deal.

-You have a T case drop and a CV drive shaft and SYE. This is redundant...Maybe. Before you go taking the T-case drop off, you may want to come up with a plan for the suspension. Being SOA with waht appears to be 3.5" lift springs, you may very well need both. The jeep is too tall to be safe. To bring it down I would
-remove the bodylift and install a 1" body lift
-sell the lift springs you have and get new ones no more 2" lift
-then remove the t-case drop and reset pinion angle

-Ubolts and plates. it looks like whoever installed the 8.8 used the ford spring plates. The problem is that the Fords used a wider leaf spring. As you can see, you have a large gap between the spring and ubolts. this i could lead to a ubolt failure as they should be right against the spring to prevent any movement. Get a set of spring mount plates from MORE, Rough stuff, Poison spyder, AtoZ, Under Cover Fab, etc.

-Tracion bar/Anti wrap bar. Not to be confused with trac-bar. You dont have one. Some SOA conversions can get away with out it, most can't. The lack of one will cause spring wrap which could cause bent springs and busted drive shafts.

-Shackle Reversal. I dont see anything blatantly wrong with it. There are conflicting stories about how danger they are on a YJ etc. Most of the people who say this dont have one. The guys who run them have no complaints. I think you jeep having as much lift as it does is far more dangerous than the shackle reversal. A good friend of mine is SOA with a shackle reversal and drives great. I drove it on teh interstate for an hour two weeks ago when we had to put mine on his trailer. It drove great on at speed even on 36" Iroks. I vote keep it.

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My SOA Build
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If it has tracks, tires or tits, its gonna cause a problem.

"Everytime someone "upgrades" a D35, an angel looses its wings."

"Dizzy" - What SnoopDog would call a Distributor if he was a mechanic. I cringe every time I hear this moronic term

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Zevon
Send lawyers, guns and money. The **** has hit the fan...
92, 4.0, AW4, 8.8, D30, 15x10, 37's, SOA etc, etc
92, 2.5, 30, 8.8, 4.88, Locked, Winch, 15x8, 35's, 3.5" (RIP)
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 09:04 AM
Siva283
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Ill trade you my 95 for your 88 if you dont like it that high. LOL

1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldso View Post
. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...
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Originally Posted by Overhead View Post
this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
Moops
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Wow! Great info, and I appreciate ya'll taking the time to answer a nube's questions. Notmyj, I'll take some photos of the steering and front suspension this afternoon when I get home and get them posted. When you say I may "need both," do you mean that with this lift, I may have to stay with 3.5" springs? How difficult would it be to put on lower springs, and how would I know if it's doable? I'm all for taking this thing down a notch or three. I'm 6'3", and I have to step on to the back tire to get in.

It looks like my priorities are, in order of importance:
1. Body lift removal (maybe some paint on the frame while the body's off).
2. Rear brake line fix (this was mentioned by the guy who re-welded the 8.8). Driver's side has a hose, but I think the pass. side has a hard line all the way to the frame.
3. New u-bolts, plates and 2" lift springs.
4. Bumpers, mirrors and brake lights/turn signals.
5. Paint, tires, etc.
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
Moops
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Oh yeah, and somewhere in there I need to re-route my exhaust and get all four wheels powered. Man, this job is getting bigger and bigger.
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 09:29 AM
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Man, this job is getting bigger and bigger.
it has only begun
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-28-2012, 09:30 AM
notmyj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moops View Post
Wow! Great info, and I appreciate ya'll taking the time to answer a nube's questions. Notmyj, I'll take some photos of the steering and front suspension this afternoon when I get home and get them posted. When you say I may "need both," do you mean that with this lift, I may have to stay with 3.5" springs? How difficult would it be to put on lower springs, and how would I know if it's doable? I'm all for taking this thing down a notch or three. I'm 6'3", and I have to step on to the back tire to get in.

It looks like my priorities are, in order of importance:
1. Body lift removal (maybe some paint on the frame while the body's off).
2. Rear brake line fix (this was mentioned by the guy who re-welded the 8.8). Driver's side has a hose, but I think the pass. side has a hard line all the way to the frame.
3. New u-bolts, plates and 2" lift springs.
4. Bumpers, mirrors and brake lights/turn signals.
5. Paint, tires, etc.

The "need both" comment was meaning you may need both the t-case drop and the CV drive shaft. Reason being is that the jeep has been lifted so high that neither the CV drive shaft nor the t-case drop by them selves would be enough to give you an acceptable drive shaft angle.

Brake hoses - the hose that you have on the driver side is a factory hose from the Explorer the axle came out of. You want to get an extend rear brake hose for a YJ. It will go from the frame to the axle, then the hard lines from the YJ brake hose to the caliper hoses. All hard lines MUST be rigidly mounted so they do not move. You need to use a passenger side hose on both calipers so that the brake lines will look like this...

Passenger side rear caliper with ford passenger side caliper hose


Driver side rear caliper with ford passenger side caliper hose


Its kinda hard to see it, but it should look something like this when its done (never mind the fact my springs are under the axle. These pics were taken on my old YJ which was spring under).




As far as changing springs it wont be that difficult since you have to replace the spring plates and ubolts anyway. Once you have that un bolted, its literally, 2 more bolts to remove each spring.

Sell all your old parts to help fund the new ones. When it comes to springs Dont cheap out. i would recomend BDS (not Black diamond) or OME.

www.pghoffroad.com
My SOA Build
Recovery Gear Basics
My BUDGET York OBA Install
Budget Welding Cart
Carling Contura Switch Panel

If it has tracks, tires or tits, its gonna cause a problem.

"Everytime someone "upgrades" a D35, an angel looses its wings."

"Dizzy" - What SnoopDog would call a Distributor if he was a mechanic. I cringe every time I hear this moronic term

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Zevon
Send lawyers, guns and money. The **** has hit the fan...
92, 4.0, AW4, 8.8, D30, 15x10, 37's, SOA etc, etc
92, 2.5, 30, 8.8, 4.88, Locked, Winch, 15x8, 35's, 3.5" (RIP)
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