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Unread 09-16-2013, 06:14 PM   #1
jimsahm
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harmonic balancer install

Ok, first things first... I must confess my sin... I banged on the harmonic balancer with a dead blow hammer (5lbs)... I now realize I was wrong... did not bang on it too hard, or too long, but I did...

Question: what are the odds I damaged at least the saddle main bearing? Is there an easy way to re-inspect?

What do you all suggest? I just received the proper install tool, but want to recheck stuff before oil pan goes on etc... its been a total rebuild project that was frankly going so well... til now.

Many thanks,
Jim

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Unread 09-16-2013, 07:25 PM   #2
Old4X
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Doubt you hurt the thrust bearing area. Your crank , clutch cover, and flywheel is probably close to 100 pounds, and a dead blow hammer isn't going to shock it much. If you don't see any broken pieces of bearing laying under the engine, carry on.

If it really bothers you, just replace the bearing, they cost about 5 bucks.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #3
jimsahm
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Ok, its worse... Crankshaft bolt threads stripped by PO! What is the best way to fix? Need to press on the Harmonic Balancer...Or do I simply order a new crank!!??
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Unread 09-17-2013, 03:33 PM   #4
jokerchief462
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Engine still installed? Get tap and fix the threads. You may have to go one size larger.

If uninstalled swing by a machine shop have them look and maybe repair.

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Unread 09-17-2013, 04:41 PM   #5
jimsahm
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Yes, crank is fully installed on engine stand... What size thread is it supposed to be? Closest in the adapters in the harmonic balancer install kit is 1/2 - 20? Does that sound correct for a 90 vintage 258? It will catch some thread, but certainly nothing close to what is needed for the balancer install....

Jim
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Unread 09-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #6
jokerchief462
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Before something gets all fubarred up may want to talk to your local machine shop and see what needs to done. There is a solution and since it is on a stand it makes it a little easier to get it done the right way so there is no worries.

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Unread 09-17-2013, 05:46 PM   #7
jay-h
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerchief462 View Post
Before something gets all fubarred up may want to talk to your local machine shop and see what needs to done. There is a solution and since it is on a stand it makes it a little easier to get it done the right way so there is no worries.

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Agreed. Good chance the machinist has seen this before.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 08:48 PM   #8
mustanggarage
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options are to try to rethread the crankshaft with a tap and dye set. if you can get it started ok you can rethread the crank. then if you put a probe down the end of the crank you will see that the hole in the crank is significantly longer than your harmonic balancer bolt. so you can get a longer grade 8 bolt and thread it in and it will catch good threads at the end of the bore. I had to do this to mine when I was trying to get the harmonic balancer bolt out and it broke. I had to drill it out, use an easy out and then rethread it. I do not remember exactly what size bolt I used but if I remember right it is a fine threaded bolt. somebody else chime in here please. what you can do if you can't tell is to take the harmonic balancer bolt down to your local hardware store and find a nut that fit it. that will tell you what size bolt and what thread you need. then take the measurement of the length of the bore in your crank. that will tell you how long a bolt you can use. get the longest one you can get that won't bottom out in the bore.

obviously first thing is first, make sure you have the right tap. again I believe it is fine threaded so make sure. then try to tap the bore you should be able to get it good enough to get the balancer install tool screwed in. screw it all the way in so that it grabs the good threads also. then press the balancer on slowly using hand tools not an impact. a little oil on the crank snout will help. also make sure that the balancer is the right size. I have heard of some chinese made hb that are undersized so check it with a micrometer first. another tip I like to use is take a bit of emery cloth and smooth out the crank shaft to make sure there are no burrs on the end.

hopefully this rambling post made some sense to you. but I don't think you will have to replace the crank if you do what I said.

btw. I think the 1/2 20 tap is what you need. whatever you don't try to thread the install tool in until you fix the threads, you could just make it worse. good luck.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 04:17 AM   #9
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If the threads are intact deeper in (such that you just cant get it caught to start the process), you can get a bolt with long threading and a nut. Bottom the bolt in the crank and use the nut to start to drive the pulley home.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 06:52 AM   #10
vadslram
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crank bolts stripped?
I hope you thouroughly checked everything else. If the PO overtorqued them so badly to strip I kind of doubt he was meticulous on the rest of the engine. It sure would suck to spend all the time and money to put it together to find out he furked the oil pump, plugged passages, jammed the cam through the bearings, reversed con rods or something equally incidious and terminal.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #11
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I just went through this same problem. I later found that the PO broke a bolt head off one of the oil pan bolts and stripped one more on the oil pan to timing cover. So get ready for more. I expect the PO removed the harmonic balancer to put a new gasket on the timing cover. He used enough silicone for three gaskets doing that. The leak was at the harmonic balancer seal so I had to take it back off to fix it properly. The first 1/4" - 3/8" of the threads were messed up. I assume he attempted to use the bolt and not the install tool to press the harmonic balancer on. I cleaned out the threads with a tap(mine was a 20 - fine thread) and ordered a new bolt. The threads felt loose where the major damage was, but I could feel it grab when I got to the ones that werent damaged. I used an install tool to press it on and threaded it as deep as possible. I used a torque wrench on the final turns and believe me I was worried I would feel it strip. So far it hasnt backed off and everything is holding. I was in panic mode and spoke with a couple old mechanics. They both believe I will be just fine and commented that cars used to just be pressed on and not bolted. It was their belief that a small amount of pressure will hold it in place. I do not have any intention on removing it until it's time for a rebuild. Make sure your harmonic balancer doesnt have a groove from the seal or it will leak oil. Morris 4x4 sells them new for about $55 so I just replaced it.

If my engine was out and the crank can still be easily removed I would either find another crank and have it reground or I'd take the crank to a machine shop and have the drill and retap. It would be worth the cost for me to have the piece of mind. This Jeep has 123k and If I can get another 100k before replacing I will probably need a rebuild.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 01:29 PM   #12
vadslram
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I tink I be cornfused
When you talked saddle bearings and then crank bolt I thought you meant the bolt(s) that hold on the bearing caps.
I am no guessing you mean the single bolt that threads into the end of the crank holding a big honkin washer that keeps the HB from backing off.
The balancer is keyed and a slight press fit. It doesn't take much to keep it in place so if you can get a fewe threads to hold and use some threadlock I think you should be fine. I wouldn't recommend it but I've personally seen a ford289 that didn't have a bolt at all. The guy tried to bolt an additional pulley to the front to drive a hack job A/C. It didn't work and he took off the pulley and never reinstalled the bolt....about 2 yrs before I saw it.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 05:36 PM   #13
jay-h
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It doesn't take much to keep it on (in fact it often will stay without a bolt). However it does take a solid amount of force to get it full seated, I would consider it considerably more than a light press fit. However there is a good chance you could drive it in with a nut if you get a long bolt well threaded in.

My guess is that the threads are probably hacked up at the beginning, further in they may be fine.
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