Got an AX15 to swap my BA10/5, have T-case questions - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > YJ Wrangler Technical Forum > Got an AX15 to swap my BA10/5, have T-case questions

FLASH SALE! Open thread to reveil the Newest Sale @ ROCKRIFS: Wrangler RGB Multicolor Fog Light LEDs: Awesome EffectIntroducing MONSTALINERô UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 04-21-2015, 04:02 PM   #1
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Got an AX15 to swap my BA10/5, have T-case questions

Hi everyone , I recently acquired a 1993 Ax15 transmission from a Cherokee, it comes with a NP231J transfer case, I've been reading that the Cherokee t-case is clocked 10 degrees and will hit the bellhousing of the Wrangler. The guy I got the transmission from has another transfer case, another NP231 without the J.

Here's my question, should I keep the NP231J or get the other one? Upon visual inspection they pretty much look the same, but a subtle angle may not be noticed by the naked eye...

I also know I will need a different pilot bearing... any other things I should be aware of? I'm installing a new clutch and pump. I wish I could make the conversion to external slave but my budget is not enough so that will have to come later.

I'm really happy about getting rid of the Peugeot transmission.

__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 04:21 PM   #2
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
It's a shame you can't do the external slave conversion at the same time, it is worthwhile. Jeepers have been having a hard time coming up with a dependable replacement internal slave and have had them fail right out of the box, or in short order. As far as clocking goes, it isn't the T case that has to be modified, it is the mount holes in the back end of the XJ transmission if this is your donor source. With the T case clocked 10* down on driver's side, it will require cutting a hole in your skid plate. Just redrill the 6 holes in the back end of your AX 15 10* clockwise as viewed from behind, and you can keep normal YJ clocking. I have understood that the BA10/5 has had both 21 spline output shaft as well as 23 spline, depending if it was early or late production or if it was mated to the NP207 or the NP231. Figure out if your T case will mate to the AX, or if you need the different T case. Your new AX 15 will have the 0.750" pilot snout, while your BA has 0.590" You will need to come up with the Pilot bearing to accommodate this, and may need to use the bushing rather than pilot bearing. Most of this will be covered in the FAQ section where the BA10/5 to AX 15 swap is discussed.
The Cherokee AX 15 shifter has a different bend to it than the YJ AX shifter and you may need to heat and re bend the shifter some if you end up needing this. I'm not sure about your T-case shifter from the 207, but you will need the 231 T case shifter so get that too. I recommend getting the AX 15 with the T case that was mounted behind it. Just re drill your tranny, and I'll edit in some posts for this.


Here is an AX15 from an XJ which has new holes drilled for re-clocking. The new holes are the ones clockwise from the originals, they're also the shiny ones.....



HERE'S an example the way Stu did one, but on an AW4 rather than an AX 15, but the technique is identical. This is simple and straight forward, and you can do it with a drill by hand, just measure very accurately, and do it with a hand held electric drill and the right size drill bits.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 04:32 PM   #3
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Thanks Opihi... good reading you again. I thought the issue was the transfer case... Making those holes is beyond my expertise, so I think I am going to the mechanic and ask for his help... Thanks for the explanation... I wonder if making those holes will affect the integrity of the transmission.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 04:43 PM   #4
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
Hey there, Nando. This has been done many times, and no one has ever noted an issue with this. The casting is made wide, which allows for either set of holes. Having both sets of holes will not cause any structural issues.

HERE is one thread from the FAQ, he got his pilot bushing from Advanced Adapters.

Here is another BA swap to an NV3550. While I do realize you are using an
AX15, there may be some details that will be helpful to your swap by covering Pilot bearing/bushing issues. I swapped an AX 15 into a TJ with NV3550 and it was identical but for the transmission mount, so you may find very good information in that thread.

It's sad that in both of these threads the photos are dead, but you should be able to get some useful information. I would also recommend getting the transmission mount (complete) for the AX 15, though I do not recall if you need to drill holes/slots in your skid plate to use it. If you do need to get the newer Skid plate, I'm sure you can come up with one down there even. I'll keep reading thru the threads.

Also get that torque arm bolt used on the NV231, it bolts down to the driver's side of the skid plate, I don't recall if the NP207 had one.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 04:49 PM   #5
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
Read THIS ONE too. Another helpful article for you with real photos that work, and a lot of helpful details.

Reading thru it there are a number of notable errors, like which year Wranglers had internal slaves versus external--94 and newer Wranglers had the external slaves.

They also claim "OE AX15 tip diameter is 0.590 inch from '89-'96, 0.750 inch from '97-'99." I do know that 89-96 claim is wrong, as they went to the 0.750" way earlier than 96. I believe it was in 91, though I'm not sure.........I just know they're wrong....
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 06:11 PM   #6
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Thanks Ian! I read through all threads, however I called the guy and he told me the transmission originally came from a Wrangler... so that means I may not have to do the new bolt pattern... I am going to get it tomorrow and will post pictures. Another issue I found was my speedo is manual and the 93 is electronic, so I need to do some research on how to enable my speedo, I need it to measure fuel since the fuel gauge is crazy and I go by distance.

Also I hope the crossmember fits, I understand it should. Now off to find a new clutch kit.

Thanks!
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 08:07 PM   #7
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
If you can, seek out LUK repset for your clutch. I understand NAPA carries them, hopefully you can source one. When you get your "new" tranny, post up a photo of the back end of it, etc and I'll tell you if it's Wrangler clocking or XJ clocking.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-21-2015, 08:36 PM   #8
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
I am supposed to get it tomorrow. I'll post pictures as soon as I can. However I am not that worried anymore, now that I know what needs to be done. I'll post a link to the Luk clutch to make sure I have the right one. Thanks again Ian, your help and explanations have made me feel a lot more at ease with the swap.
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 01:53 AM   #9
burntoutfireguy
Registered User
1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opihi59 View Post
I would also recommend getting the transmission mount (complete) for the AX 15, though I do not recall if you need to drill holes/slots in your skid plate to use it. If you do need to get the newer Skid plate, I'm sure you can come up with one down there even. I'll keep reading thru the threads.
.
That's an awful lot of very useful information so far! I just thought i would jump in about the skid plate. When i did my AX15 conversion about 8 years ago, the skid plate for my '89 had holes for both the BA10 and AX15, so i cant say with certainty that an '87 would be the same, but i have a feeling that more than likely you will be good there.

Good job on deciding to do the swap! The BA10 is garbage. You will not regret this upgrade! Good luck.
__________________
89 YJ. 4.2L W/ Weber. Converted to AX15. 4" RC Lift, 1" BL, 32" Courser MXT's.
burntoutfireguy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 10:02 AM   #10
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
Well, it is possible to drill what you need, though of course best to cut "slots" to allow for positioning. I made up my own way-thinner transmission mount for one of my Rubicons to correct driveline angles which required new slot holes as below. This is a TJ skid plate of course, so it's going to look different from the YJ skid where the transmission mount bolts comes thru.












Quote:
Originally Posted by burntoutfireguy View Post
When i did my AX15 conversion about 8 years ago, the skid plate for my '89 had holes for both the BA10 and AX15, so i cant say with certainty that an '87 would be the same, but i have a feeling that more than likely you will be good there.
It was in 89, like October 10th or something like that, that they made the switch from BA 10/5 to AX 15 and likely had a lot of skid plates drilled for both as the time for the switch approached. I sorta doubt the 87 skid would have been drilled for both though that far in advance of the change. Could you consider rolling up under your rig and taking a photo of where your 89 mounts are now? Like the bolt holes/slots please? It may come in very handy for Fernando to see this to help his mechanic out.

Fernando--you will need the AX15 transmission mount, "complete" as it is a two-piece item. There is a steel plate that will bolt to the bottom of the AX15 with 4 bolts, and then to the plate there is the actual mount which can be removed from that plate, and it bolts thru the skid plate in the YJ with 2 bolts generally. I do not have any photos of the YJ AX 15 transmission mount/plate, but here is what a stock TJ mount looks like so you can see the concept. The standing up part of it holds a tab for the catalytic converter.



Same thing, from the underside. This shows the rubber isolator mount that bolts to the mount plate with 4 bolts, then bolts to the skid plate with the 4 smaller bolts you see.



The YJ mount will of course be different, I'm just trying to demonstrate the concept of the 2 pieces you need to have a complete AX 15 transmission mount. Make sure you get these from the guy who has the transmissions/transfer cases, as your BA mount will not work for this swap. Hopefully someone will see this thread and the photos I put up and will post in some photos of the YJ AX 15 transmission mount system for you.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 11:08 AM   #11
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Thanks a lot guys, I am off to get it now, expect pictures later today... Ian I have told the guy about the transmission mount, hopefully he'll provide it with the transmission. I will also share pictures of my skid plate. I might just do this myself and not take it to a mechanic, I am feeling more confident. I found out the transmission mount is the same for all YJ's which makes me think that the torque arm and skid plate must have the same pattern as well, otherwise the rubber mount wouldn't fit. Anyway, I'll go get it now will post pictures in a couple hours.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 04:05 PM   #12
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Here, as promised, bunch of pictures. I think it's clocked for a Wrangler which is great... they gave me the shifter for the AWD and regular shifter. Guy gave me a sort of warranty, he said to install it and test it, if anything is wrong then he'll fix it or give my money back, though I have a feeling it will be allright.

The torque arm is kinda weird, like they did something there, some strange weld, don't know what for...but I have the arm from my old Peugeot tranny and the bolt pattern seems to be the same.

Another thing, how much play should I have on the transfer case? when I move the yoke there is a little play, I can heard the chain knocking inside, I wonder if that is normal... Anyway I have to install it as it is, otherwise I lose the warranty.



















__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 04:27 PM   #13
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
It appears to be Wrangler clocking, and is the 0.590 snout version. I'm not sure quite what to make of the transmission mount though, something "custom" and I don't seem to see the rubber portion of the mount. Not sure why, but I just don't have any photos of that assembly but likely can be found online. It does have the 2 studs there to bolt that portion of the mount to though, and it's not bad to put in a new rubber mount portion. You may have to cut/grind off that custom work though........maybe someone will send you a photo of what it is you need.
As far as the T case goes, if you hear chain slapping against the case, it is likely very worn. You can mess with that later though. I'd get it in and functional and go from there, maybe see if you can get an entire new tranny mount--the plate you have, and the rubber portion you don't. Maybe someone with a spare will send it your way.

Dug around, found this: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/attac...anny-mount.jpg
It should at least be helpful with nomenclature, etc. Also includes the layout of the torque arm stud.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 09:14 PM   #14
Fernando
Web Wheeler
 
Fernando's Avatar
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Josť, Costa Rica
Posts: 1,354
Ian, I made a video of the transfer case noise, so you can give a better diagnostic. As per the transmission mount, I will get a new rubber part, and test fit it to the current mount, if it does not fit properly then I can always reuse the one from the Peugeot tranny, as well as the torque arm stud.

By the way, I don't think there is enough oil in it, I am changing all fluids during installation. It may help with the noise.

One thing I did not understand, what does it mean when you say "the 0.590 snout version"?

__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
I don't mind writing for Fernando because he reads, and re-reads EVERY WORD!... Good to write for someone that actually READS the answer, and takes time to UNDERSTAND what comes back for an answer!
-------------------------------
Fernando is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-22-2015, 10:46 PM   #15
Opihi59
from here it gets rough
 
Opihi59's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Beyond Honolulu
Posts: 4,563
Seems like a lotta play, but does not appear that I am hearing chain slap. After doing my rebuild, I never did a before/after test like that so I have nothing to go by. I'd move forward with the build, get it running and all and see how it does. The only thing to allow movement there like that is chain slack from stretching and the chains do not last forever, they are cheap and easy to replace though so don't let this be a hold up.

Snout--the piece of the input shaft that goes into the pilot bearing. Yours is the smaller version which will not cause a conflict in trying to come up with a new pilot. The larger size is 0.750" that came in the later AX 15 and NV3550. Here they are side by side.



What's your plan on flywheel? I'll have to read into those threads and see what others have done.
__________________
....I'm not smart, but I can lift heavy things.......

Fill out your PROFILE, and don't forget to look in the FAQ for writeups

I'm stuck on da Rock http://kamfamily.wordpress.com/2009/...waiian-limpet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
Opihi59 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.