Full Width Axles Under a YJ - how wide is too wide? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
StanF
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Full Width Axles Under a YJ - how wide is too wide?

I'm considering doing a HP Dana 44 install from a '79 F250. I'd also go full width in the rear.

I'd like to go a little wider than where I'm at for more stability, but I'm afraid that full width may be too much for my rig - mostly cosmetically. (2.5" Springs + 1" Body Lift, stock wheel base, 35" tires).

The full width axles are about 4" wider than the stock YJ axles, so the wheels would be moved out 2" on each side.

Wheel backspacing would stay about the same at 3.75-4.00". There's really not much choice in 15" wheels to increase the backspacing. And with more backspacing the lock out hubs would also be more prone to damage.

The total track width (outside tire to outside tire) would be about 78" - up from about 74".

All you guys with full width axles...Comments???

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post #2 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 02:58 PM
Joe Dillard
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My front is ~83" outside of tire to outside of tire. It barely squeezes between the side rails of my 84" width trailer on the 37's.

I run a set of 39x13.50x17 sticky Krawlers and a set of 37x12.50x17 sticky Krawlers. Both sets of tires are ran on Walker Evans 17x8.5 beadlocks w/5" BS.

The WMS-WMS on the front is 69.25".

The rear axle is a bit narrower at 67" WMS-WMS.

The extra width adds a HUGE amount of stability, and with all that heavy beef down low, the CG is way better & the tires stay planted in most circumstances.
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post #3 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 03:05 PM
Joe Dillard
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Hard to tell by this pic - but the D60 front hubs are ~2" inside the tire walls.

The FF14B rear hubs are ~3 1/2" inside the tire walls.

Notice how much wider the Jeep axle is vs my Hellcat.


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post #4 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
StanF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard
Hard to tell by this pic - but the D60 front hubs are ~2" inside the tire walls. The FF14B rear hubs are ~3 1/2" inside the tire walls. Notice how much wider the Jeep axle is vs my Hellcat.
Great looking white YJ!

Stock wheelbase or are you stretched at all?


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post #5 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 04:10 PM
Joe Dillard
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It's ~95" IIRC.

The Jeep is ready to go under the knife & I will fab an upper triangulated 4 link & ~10" rear stretch.
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post #6 of 149 Old 03-31-2016, 07:59 PM
shaggyjim
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I have the 77 HP D44 and a HP ford 9" out of a 85 bronco. They look good and work well to keep the jeep from the side to side pulling in the ruts on the highway.
One thought on the 79 D44. the ford castings on the 79's and some 78's can't be removed from the tubes. 77 and older is the best way to go because you can remove the castings with a grinder.
My TW is about 79" front and 78" for the back on 35" KM2's.

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post #7 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 05:34 AM Thread Starter
StanF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggyjim View Post
I have the 77 HP D44 and a HP ford 9" out of a 85 bronco. They look good and work well to keep the jeep from the side to side pulling in the ruts on the highway.
One thought on the 79 D44. the ford castings on the 79's and some 78's can't be removed from the tubes. 77 and older is the best way to go because you can remove the castings with a grinder.
My TW is about 79" front and 78" for the back on 35" KM2's.
You have a HP 9 in the rear? I wasn't aware that Broncos ever came with a HP 9. Or did you go with a Currie or Tru Hi 9 3rd member?

How did you get a TW of 79"? Did you narrow the Dana 44? running?

Good tip on the axles for anyone reading - I've got a 79 F250 Dana 44 setup for leaf springs, so it's easy to weld and modify. I'm just putting on outers (knuckle out) from an F150. I'm not using the F250 outers for a couple of reasons:
1) With the F250 outers the wms to wms width increases to 67", so I would likely want to narrow it.
2) The F250 outers are 8 lug, and then I would have to do a Dana 60 in the rear. I feel like a Dana 60 would be too large for my needs at this point.
3) I can use my existing 15" tires with the F150 outers.
The big downside to the F150 outers is that I lose the flat top F250 knuckles for crossover steering, and I also lose the massive F250 brakes.

In a few years, I may swap back to the F250 parts.

Here's the axle:
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post #8 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 06:38 AM
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Keep us posted , I thought about doing this but I like my jeep where it's at currently ( same setup as you ) with 2.5 springs 1"body and hoodline fenders with no rear flares . I locked and put chromos in the 30 and packed the 8.8 lsd tight and it's been doing everything I want to do but if I was to swap ,the axlesyour choosing would be my choice as well
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post #9 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanF View Post
You have a HP 9 in the rear? I wasn't aware that Broncos ever came with a HP 9. Or did you go with a Currie or Tru Hi 9 3rd member?

How did you get a TW of 79"? Did you narrow the Dana 44? running?

Good tip on the axles for anyone reading - I've got a 79 F250 Dana 44 setup for leaf springs, so it's easy to weld and modify. I'm just putting on outers (knuckle out) from an F150. I'm not using the F250 outers for a couple of reasons:
1) With the F250 outers the wms to wms width increases to 67", so I would likely want to narrow it.
2) The F250 outers are 8 lug, and then I would have to do a Dana 60 in the rear. I feel like a Dana 60 would be too large for my needs at this point.
3) I can use my existing 15" tires with the F150 outers.
The big downside to the F150 outers is that I lose the flat top F250 knuckles for crossover steering, and I also lose the massive F250 brakes.

In a few years, I may swap back to the F250 parts.

Here's the axle:
My advice would be to leave it 8 lug, sell your existing tires and run GM wheels with 5.5" backspacing with new tires. I ran a '79 F250 HP44/60 rear in a SOA YJ on stock springs. I find it easier to sell tires instead of downgrading the axle to run the existing tires.

1989 YJ, 1977 CJ-7
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post #10 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprungover View Post
My advice would be to leave it 8 lug, sell your existing tires and run GM wheels with 5.5" backspacing with new tires. I ran a '79 F250 HP44/60 rear in a SOA YJ on stock springs. I find it easier to sell tires instead of downgrading the axle to run the existing tires.
I would second this, that's how I went anyway. But, as always, it's your rig do what you want with it.

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post #11 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
StanF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprungover View Post
My advice would be to leave it 8 lug, sell your existing tires and run GM wheels with 5.5" backspacing with new tires. I ran a '79 F250 HP44/60 rear in a SOA YJ on stock springs. I find it easier to sell tires instead of downgrading the axle to run the existing tires.
Good suggestion, and I definitely considered it - some of my thoughts are below. Nothing is finalized yet. Before it's all said and done, I may end up with 8 lug and 37" tires. Keep the comments and ideas coming!

Pros for 8 Lug:
1) Better brakes - one of the main reasons that I wanted to upgrade the front axle
2) Flat top knuckles for high steer - stronger/improved steering was one of my main goals. And I'll be adding ram assist.

8 Lug Concerns:
Axle width:
Would 5.5" of backspacing even work? Wouldn't the lockout hubs be sitting flush with the tires, and be more prone to damage? From what I've measured on the hubs, about 4" backspacing would provide good clearance (~1.50") for a 12.50" tire on an 8" wheel.

The 67" width could be narrowed, of course. I'm sure that I could do this, but I would rather not.

Cost:
I'm trying hard to make this full width upgrade only a net cost of $2k or so, which is difficult, if you're replacing both axles.

If I run 8 lug, then I'd be looking at thousands $$$ for new rear ARB and new wheels/tires. Of course, the cost would be offset by selling existing stuff, but you're only getting back 50-60% of the new price.

Ground Clearance and Weight:
The Dana 60 rear would cost 1-2" of of ground clearance under the pumpkin. It would also weigh quite a bit more. The Dana 44 would probably max out at 37" tires, so a Dana 60 rear would really be overkill. A 8.8 or 9" would be a better fit for 37" tires.

Full Width 8.8:
If I go with the F150 outers with 5x5.5, I'll pick up a full width 8.8 out of an F150. I already know where one is. I can transfer over my ARB, etc. It will be an EASY swap and very cost effective.

FWIW, I started this quest by looking at the Reid Racing Knuckles for the Dana 30. But when I looked at the expense of everything required, it made more sense to just replace the axle.
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post #12 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 10:31 AM
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Mines around 84-85. Guys I ride with range from about the same as mine, up to about 94".


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post #13 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 12:46 PM
shaggyjim
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Sorry Stan I guess I could have explained the 9" a little better but my six year old was asking me about something at the same time.
I do have the tru hi9 in mine and the housing is from an 85. I went with an ARB and 35 spline Currie axles. As for the track width on the front I didn't do anything to the axle but do a high steering set up which Chevrolet knuckles. I can check again but when I put the tape on it last night I'm sure it said 79" outside rubber to outside rubber. I think I will check again when I get home but my Jeep did fit on a Uhaul car trailer when I moved.
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post #14 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 06:06 PM
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I like your idea of the ford 8.8 out back to match the f250 D44. That would work great. I did get the tape on the Jeep again and I have it at 79" wide. However I wouldn't fault anyone for calling it 80" with sidewall flex. I went with the 44/9" to keep the weight down in a Jeep used for a daily driver most of the summer.
If you do go with the 5 on 5 1/2 it's quite easy to get the flat tops for high steering set up from old Chevy pickups in the junkyard.
In the photo I'm posting the blue level is 78" wide. I hope this is some help.
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post #15 of 149 Old 04-01-2016, 06:26 PM
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This is the other photo I've been trying to upload but I can't get it to from my Iphone or the edit button on my other post.
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