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Unread 10-26-2008, 11:35 AM   #76
Joe Dillard
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Here's some good reading.

Ensure to read post #15.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showt...ght=beer+party

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Unread 10-26-2008, 12:20 PM   #77
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
The track bar cost AMC money, so you can assume it's there for a reason (i.e. bad safety record for CJs).

Removing it will not improve your ride or significantly affect your flex, so I'm not sure why people want to take them off.

Sway bars are a different story. A disco is a good idea because they do interfere with flex, but at road speeds they add substantially to stability by controlling body roll, especially during emergency maneuvers.
Here's my mostly stock (shackles and 1" BL at the time) YJ without sway bars or track bars:





All four tires are solidly making contact with the ground. As you mentioned, there is a reason Chrysler/AMC put them on the YJ, however to say that they don't inhibit suspension travel is incorrect. Like Sleddin' mentioned, the leaf springs in YJ's offer more than enough lateral support to keep the axles centered under the Jeep.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 01:06 PM   #78
UltimatE
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You are looking at 2 problems here.

#1, are your lift shackles. They will drastically alter your caster angle, and at highway speeds you are going to have VERY light steering. The only way to solve this is to get an alignment to re-adjust the caster, or get rid of the lift shackles.

#2, you got rid of the sway bar. The sway bar helps keep the jeep's body from dipping left and right during cornering, or more importantly, evasive maneuvers. If you want to remove your sway bar for articulation, don't. Get disconnects.

I am running my jeep without tracbars and I have not noticed a single bit of difference with on-road manners. It is a highly debated subject on here and many on this forum have first hand experience that it will NOT make a difference. When I removed my track bars, I noticed an immediate increase in flexibility. When trying to flex, the track bar forces the axle outward. Since the leaf springs do not have any lateral movement, the system "binds" and doesn't flex.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 01:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post

#1, are your lift shackles. They will drastically alter your caster angle, and at highway speeds you are going to have VERY light steering. The only way to solve this is to get an alignment to re-adjust the caster, or get rid of the lift shackles.
You will not be able to adjust the caster on a solid axle vehicle by simply doing an alignment. You will either need adjustable ball joints that will give you the ability to adjust caster or you will cut and re-weld your spring mounts to achieve to proper caster. As mentioned, your shackles will affect this measurement, the easiest way to fix this is a smaller set of shackles or factory height shackles.

OP,

I bet if you were to step down to some 1" lift shackles, you will notice a much better 'feel' to your steering, this is the maximum height that many people will recommend for shackles.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 01:30 PM   #80
Burnerman
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You can use shims to adjust it. I pulled out the 2.5* aluminum shims from my front spring plates. Use steel ones.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 01:31 PM   #81
UltimatE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
You will not be able to adjust the caster on a solid axle vehicle by simply doing an alignment. You will either need adjustable ball joints that will give you the ability to adjust caster or you will cut and re-weld your spring mounts to achieve to proper caster. As mentioned, your shackles will affect this measurement, the easiest way to fix this is a smaller set of shackles or factory height shackles.
Thanks for the correction.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 01:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnerman View Post
You can use shims to adjust it. I pulled out the 2.5* aluminum shims from my front spring plates. Use steel ones.
True, but you can only go so far with shims, plus those of us that are lifted need to keep an eye on pinion angles.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 02:26 PM   #83
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What kind of shackles did you put on it?
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Unread 10-26-2008, 02:38 PM   #84
Alfons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
True, but you can only go so far with shims, plus those of us that are lifted need to keep an eye on pinion angles.
If you know how far out the caster angle is, you can use steel shims for adjustment - these can be tacked onto the perch and will act like a re-positioned perch. It's true that your pinion angle will change and this will affect the drive shaft geometry. If you don't use 4wd on-road, smaller angles won't affect things much & if you do need to smooth things out, you can add a single or dual CV drive shaft to the front. The single CV shaft is only good with one larger angle such as you end up with on the rear axle, and sometimes you can luck out with the same configuration for the front. If you end up with both the pinion and the t-case angles of more than a few degrees, you can fix this by having a drive shaft made with two CV joints - one for each angle. Here's a picture of a front CV joint DS (only have a pic of one end).





The shaft shown in the above pictures was built from 2 XJ front drive shafts. It was re-tubed for added length, the second CV joint added to the pinion end, balanced, and then with 2 CV yokes, it was good to go.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 03:26 PM   #85
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my vote is that your problems relate to your lift shackles, and not your lack of sway bars or track bars. I run 2 inch lift shackles, which are 4 inches longer than stock (tempoary poor mans lift as well) and also have issues like you describe that for some reason are MUCH worse when it is windy. I would remove the lift shackles if you can't handle it until you can porperly lift your jeep, or just deal with it until you can change the lift. On my jeep there is no "just cruising," if you arn't constantly paying attention, you will end up in the ditch. This is due to the lack of caster angle IMHO, I didn't have it when I first disconnected my sway bar, didn't have it when I removed the track bars, shackle lift went on and HOLY !@#$, it drives WAY different. I am the only one who drives it, never on the highway, mainly to and from work and I deal with it (unhappily) until I can afford the 2.5 inch lift springs I want.

Hope that Helps

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Unread 10-26-2008, 03:37 PM   #86
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I have both trac bars removed and have noticed no change in street manners, even going as fast as 75 mph. I did leave the sway bar connected though. If your Jeep is having that much problems without trac bars, then there's something else that's wrong. Probably your shackles, which are 1 1/2 times as long as stock.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #87
bigsquat
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Has any had any experince with an add a leaf. IT might stiffin it up cheeply untill u get the lift.I did this on a cj years ago and it help nthe street driving quit a bit . It did hower limit my wheel drop , which was bad offroad.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 06:33 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_1993_YJ View Post
I removed my sway bar and tracbar yesterday and now when I am cruising down the highway and hit a bump or turn my Jeep will sway side to side so bad that I have to slam on the brakes and slow down to get it to stop. My Jeep is pretty close to stock the only thing changed on the front is the shackles they are 1.5 inch straight lift shackles. I am wondering if anyone else had this problem as I do not want to put the Tracbar back on but I can't keep driving it the way it is. Any suggestions welcome thanks in advance.
Hey Chris.... I've seen your Jeep around town before. Nice rig.
If you want to bring it by sometime, we can try to narrow down the problem. How soon were you planning on doing the lift kit? That will probably remove the proplem anyway.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 08:12 PM   #89
Chris
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I went through the whole front end today and I am convinced it is the cheap shackle lift the PO put on and decided to just reinstall my trac bar for the time being. RikRotorhead I take it you drive down Nutmeg alot or just seen me cruising around town, I am ready now to do the lift but my new home comes out of escrow this week in Wildomar so it will probably be a couple of weeks before I get the time and the new house has a three car garage making life alot easier.

To everyone else I agree that Chrysler put the trac bar on for a reason and I believe it helps in the stability of the Jeep but I don't believe it is a neccesary part when it comes to leaf springs.
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Unread 10-26-2008, 08:23 PM   #90
pat8942
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I don't have track bars and I drive my Jeep at highway speeds all the time with absolutely no issues.
The only difference I noticed after removing them was a better ride and more flex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryjeeper View Post
You may be able to drive safely without the sway bar (I have seen a lot of rigs w/o sway bars or with them disco) but the trac bar serves an important function "keeping the front axle centered under the Jeep" and should not be removed for street or highway use. If operating at speeds above 30 MPH, you are asking for a disaster.
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