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Unread 04-17-2012, 10:08 PM   #1
TJMistress
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Ford 8.8 Pinion Squeal

Setup:
500 miles on a ford 8.8" out of a 96 explorer. 4.56 gears with an ARB and Tom Woods double cardan driveshaft. Changed the oil at 450 miles.

When it gets hot I get a squeal similar to what you'd expect from a bad u-joint, this started at about 400 miles on the gears. I've removed both front and rear drive shafts one at a time to narrow the problem down hoping it was as simple as a bad u-joint. After driving it 10 miles and quickly puting it on jack stands, idling in 5th gear I can definitely say it is coming from the pinion.

I've seen a couple of posts about high pinion angles possibly starving the outer bearing of oil, but nobody has definitively said this was the problem. I'm at about 22 degrees at the pinion with a working angle of 17 from the transfer case. Tonight I pointed it downhill in the driveway with the rear up on ramps and pumped it full but I suppose the damage may be done because the squeal is just as bad.

Anyone have this experience? I'm not saying I didn't make a mistake when I installed my gears but I was very meticulous when setting them up.

I won't be able to tear into it for a couple of weeks so thought I'd see if any gear experts out there had anything to say before I did.

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Unread 04-18-2012, 02:47 AM   #2
Joe Dillard
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If it were mine - I'd drain the oil and check the pattern again.

But before doing that, I'd check the torque on the 4 pinion flange bolts and inspect that rear ujoint area real well.
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Unread 04-18-2012, 05:59 AM   #3
jsawduste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
If it were mine - I'd drain the oil and check the pattern again.

But before doing that, I'd check the torque on the 4 pinion flange bolts and inspect that rear ujoint area real well.
^ this

and this
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Unread 04-18-2012, 08:51 AM   #4
TJMistress
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
^ this

and this
Thats a pretty sweet setup. If I get any oil blowing out I'll hafta do this. The pinion flange and driveshaft look stellar, no leaks, nothing loose. It squeals regardless if the rear driveshaft is connected. I'll recheck my pattern when I tear into it.
After sleeping on it, it makes sense to me that I would need to level out the pinion and then fill it to the drain plug to get the oil to the proper level. I didn't pay attention to how close the pinion was to level when I topped it off. Might try to get more oil in there tonight but will be tearing into it regardless of the outcome. Somethin ain't right.
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Unread 04-18-2012, 12:56 PM   #5
jsawduste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMistress View Post
Thats a pretty sweet setup. If I get any oil blowing out I'll hafta do this. The pinion flange and driveshaft look stellar, no leaks, nothing loose. It squeals regardless if the rear driveshaft is connected. I'll recheck my pattern when I tear into it.
After sleeping on it, it makes sense to me that I would need to level out the pinion and then fill it to the drain plug to get the oil to the proper level. I didn't pay attention to how close the pinion was to level when I topped it off. Might try to get more oil in there tonight but will be tearing into it regardless of the outcome. Somethin ain't right.
With the catch can I was able to add an additional quart over the drain plug level. Like you my pinion is at about 22*. I was (as in past tense) concerned about pinion bearing lubrication. No worries now.
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Unread 04-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #6
TJMistress
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I'm a little slow. I didn't even think about being able to use it to top off the axle. Did you connect that to the breather or tap a new hole directly to the dif housing?

I dropped the front end over the edge of an abandoned railroad bed nearby and got the pinion leveled. Pumped as much oil as I could in. Still squealing. Headed out of town and will tear into it when I get back. I'll try to remember to update when I figure it out, maybe someone can learn from my fu-up.
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Unread 04-18-2012, 10:19 PM   #7
jsawduste
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Right to the breather.

The oil warms then expands partially filling the can. As it cools the level returns to normal. I leave about a cup or so for expansion. You will know if you have overfilled it when the oil gets warm and expands.

On all but the hottest days I cannot detect any gear oil smell in the cabin. Even with the top on and windows up. Once underway any odor is swept away.
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Unread 06-23-2012, 05:19 PM   #8
TJMistress
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So I've been procrastinating this long enough and tore into it this morning. Found two possible culprits.

1) The pinion flange has a groove in it from the seal. I didn't think a rubber seal would squeal like that but didn't think it would wear a groove in the metal either.



2) Spider gear cup washers. I'm starting to think this is more likely. I didn't think it was low enough on oil to cause this... Can just catch a fingernail on some of the grooves. Both cups look the same.

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Unread 06-23-2012, 06:02 PM   #9
giggityjeeper
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for filling it a 96 should have a ABS sensor on top of the diff, pull it out and use it for your fill hole now..... your old dana 35 rubber plug WILL fit in the hole and use the 8.8 bracket that bolts in to hold it in place or just reuse the snesor and seal it up.....

Im at 29 degrees on my 8.8 I have not driving it much yet as still building but it jammed full of oil using the old ABS sensor hole....I took the actual fuill plug out, once it hit there I put it back in and put another half to 3/4 litre inso its over the fill hole

the vent I left whre it is for now
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Unread 06-23-2012, 06:33 PM   #10
TJMistress
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You know how many times I looked at that hole and wondered what to do with it? I nearly tapped it and put a plug in it but ended up welding a plate over it.

Having said that, I have a confession to make. There is a plug on the front of the dif just over the pinion that I completely forgot about. I can get more than enough oil in it here. I guess it was just too much to remember for my saturated brain. I spent the winter tearing it to the frame and building it back up. Coulda done something worse than this I suppose, but there isn't much joy for me in redoing gears at this point.
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Unread 06-23-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
giggityjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMistress View Post
You know how many times I looked at that hole and wondered what to do with it? I nearly tapped it and put a plug in it but ended up welding a plate over it.

Having said that, I have a confession to make. There is a plug on the front of the dif just over the pinion that I completely forgot about. I can get more than enough oil in it here. I guess it was just too much to remember for my saturated brain. I spent the winter tearing it to the frame and building it back up. Coulda done something worse than this I suppose, but there isn't much joy for me in redoing gears at this point.
lol.....man that is the PERFECT fill plug, its on top.... the one on the front works, but even there I oculdnt get enough in, so I use the old ABAS sensor hole on top.....
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family roll bar swap/upgrade..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...grade-1054753/

1990 YJ. SOA, OME 36R 3.5" lift springs, OME 5/8 greasable shackles, OTT high steer, Custom cage, team Rush, Posi, 33 TSL swampers
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Unread 08-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #12
TJMistress
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Who needs a 50 dollar canister when you've got a gatorade bottle and a little RTV?


The wife was buggin me to take her camping and my canister wasn't in yet. It worked well except I drilled a vent hole in the bottom which acted like a funnel when it started raining. Who woulda thunk it would rain after 35 days of sunshine?

Here is my finished product. Didn't realize it was so big when I ordered it.

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Unread 02-21-2013, 08:01 AM   #13
KyBoy1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMistress View Post
So I've been procrastinating this long enough and tore into it this morning. Found two possible culprits.

1) The pinion flange has a groove in it from the seal. I didn't think a rubber seal would squeal like that but didn't think it would wear a groove in the metal either.



2) Spider gear cup washers. I'm starting to think this is more likely. I didn't think it was low enough on oil to cause this... Can just catch a fingernail on some of the grooves. Both cups look the same.

Sorry to pop in on an old thread, but I just last weekend installed my 8.8 into my ZJ...i have this squealing noise when coasting thru a turn. It may be there when applying the throttle, but the exhaust doesn't let me hear it.

And in reference to your pic #1, to me i don't see how the rubber would groove anything either, but it makes sense to squeal just like the serpentine belt does.

What did you ever find out to solve your issue? Was it resetting up and then adding the oil expansion bottle to allow more fluid in the diff??? Mine is only at 12* on the pinion, and I truly need to lower it about 3*....however I'm waiting on the driveshaft to be rebalanced for the 4th time by the shop. The owner there said someone is gonna have their head rolled
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Unread 07-14-2013, 05:23 PM   #14
TJMistress
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I missed your post. Hope you got it fixed.

My squeal was from starving the outer pinion bearing. It was cooked. I replaced both bearings and added the overflow canister and haven't had any problems with the bearings since.

However, raising the oil level to this height has had other unintended consequences. I am getting oil into my locker air line and venting oil out of the compressor. I am mulling over solutions to this problem. The compressor is on the passenger floorboard next to the seat. I might try to mount it higher, reduce the oil level and replace the locker o-ring. I never really liked this location anyways. Don't get into deep water much here in Utah but if I ever do, I'd have to worry about drowning my compressor there.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 07:02 PM   #15
KyBoy1991
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Well, believe it or not, mine cleared up by adding a lot more friction modifier to the axle. New heavy duty clutches in the limited slip I guess just needed more than the recommended amount from the factory. I ended up putting in 5 bottles of the stuff in the hole where the ABS sensor is (8.8 drove around, and after it warmed up it hasn't done it since.

I thought about the elevated tank for more oil but then read about all the issues others have had that you're now facing and said I'd only go that route. IF the additive didn't fix my problem.

I got lucky for once.
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