Flat tow in 5th or N? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > YJ Wrangler Technical Forum > Flat tow in 5th or N?

Rockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits BLACK FRIDAY SPECIALS!! You asked, we deliver!Rough Country Lift Kits and Parts!

Reply
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:40 PM   #16
Xpress
Registered User
1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Great Big Box, California
Posts: 5,809
Wait, hold on a second. If you put the transfer case in NEUTRAL, doesn't it disengage itself from the transmission entirely???

__________________
[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/another-5-2l-yj-thread-1503048/"]My 5.2L Build thread[/URL]

-1989 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L, soon to be 5.2L
-1996 Jeep Grand Cherokar 5.2L, donor and rainy day driver
-2004 Kawasaki KLR650 sunny day driver
[QUOTE=mudsweatNgearz;21162729]Leave em off and weld an I beam on. Bumperetts just scream homo.[/QUOTE]
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the [B][I]RIGHT[/I][/B] of the people to keep and bear Arms, [B][I]SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED[/I][/B]."
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-09-2011, 07:46 PM   #17
Spuznick242
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , PA
Posts: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Wait, hold on a second. If you put the transfer case in NEUTRAL, doesn't it disengage itself from the transmission entirely???
That's what I've been debating while reading all of this. And it has to disengage its self from the trans otherwise if it was in gear the engine would have to be running. There's no connection between the drive shafts and the transmission with the transfer case in N.
__________________
DD- 1995 YJ 2.5L, Cat delete, 19lb injectors, 30/9.5r15
Trail Rig- 1994 YJ 4.0L, Rubicon Express 4.5inch lift, 1inch body, D30 Aussie, 33/12.5/r15 Cooper Mud Terrains, front bumper, rocker guards
Spuznick242 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-09-2011, 08:16 PM   #18
timatoe
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Grass Valley California
Posts: 13,786
There will be light potential engergy carrying the driveshafts around that energy will cause things to move withing the t-case thus there's an oil slinger inside there to well.... sling oil around and keep stuff lubricated. They put it in the manual this way for a reason.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancytron View Post
The owner's manual says:

1. Put in 2wd high
2. Drive 10 ft to make sure front axle not locked and 4wd light is off
3. Shift transmission into neutral
4. Turn engine off with key in unlocked position
5. Shift transfer case into neutral
6. shift transmission into gear
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Orwell
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
timatoe is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-09-2011, 09:02 PM   #19
LilyBayXJ
Registered User
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Posts: 1,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
If you tow a manual transmission equipped Jeep with the rear drive shaft connected and the wheels on the ground you are going to spin the main shaft of the transmission no matter what. If you put it in 5th, not only will the transmission still turn but the engine will also be turning. I'm not sure about your logic there. You can't prevent at least part of the transmission from spinning unless you remove the rear drive shaft or stick the thing on a flatbed.

If someone does tow in this manner and backs up (reverses) the tow vehicle, you will be spinning the Jeep's engine backwards. Not a huge issue for some engines but very bad juju for others.
The idea behind it is that you run with the transfer case in neutral. This seperates the rear driveshaft from the transmission. Thus, the transmission doesn't spin.
__________________
2006 LJ - 4.0L, NSG370, 31's
2001 XJ - 4.0L, AW4, 3.5" lift, 31's
1997 TJ - 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" lift, 32's - Sold
1983 CJ-5 - Stock - Sold
[URL="http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tj-tech-boot-camp-must-read-new-tj-owners-forum-members-722109/"]TJ Boot Camp[/URL]
LilyBayXJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-09-2011, 09:51 PM   #20
AaronJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyBayXJ View Post
The idea behind it is that you run with the transfer case in neutral. This seperates the rear driveshaft from the transmission. Thus, the transmission doesn't spin.
Yeah, someone corrected me on that right after my post. I was assuming the t/c was in gear. Ya know what assuming does.....
AaronJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 06:49 AM   #21
malone_703
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pembroke, Ontario
Posts: 28
Okay, so. I'm towing my YJ with a car dolly, so the rear wheels will be on the ground while the front will be on said dolly. In this case I'll want it in 5th with the T-case in N. What kind of bad 'juju' can I expect if I reverse? It's a 95 with a 2.5L 4 clyinder.
malone_703 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 08:30 AM   #22
AaronJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by malone_703 View Post
Okay, so. I'm towing my YJ with a car dolly, so the rear wheels will be on the ground while the front will be on said dolly. In this case I'll want it in 5th with the T-case in N. What kind of bad 'juju' can I expect if I reverse? It's a 95 with a 2.5L 4 clyinder.
If your transfer case is in neutral you can ignore what I said...
AaronJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 12:33 PM   #23
timatoe
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Grass Valley California
Posts: 13,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by malone_703 View Post
Okay, so. I'm towing my YJ with a car dolly, so the rear wheels will be on the ground while the front will be on said dolly. In this case I'll want it in 5th with the T-case in N. What kind of bad 'juju' can I expect if I reverse? It's a 95 with a 2.5L 4 clyinder.
In your case I'd just pull the rear drive shaft and strap it up out of the way. But, you can drive it up on the dolly, shift the t-case to n, put it in 5th and be on your way.

Don't back up with it on the dolly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Orwell
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
timatoe is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 12:49 PM   #24
leadsled01
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Posts: 120
You can't back up when using a dolly. Usually ends up with the straps ripping off the front tires and the jeep rolling off the dolly. I saw my brother do it once (damn hillbilly)..
leadsled01 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 01:05 PM   #25
Mean Max
Don't poke the bear
 
Mean Max's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Stuart, Florida
Posts: 13,682
For flat towing, the T-case must be in neutral, but the transmission must be in Park (automatic) or in gear (manual) during towing.

The T-case oil pump is driven from the output shaft of the T-case, so flat towing will turn the driveshafts and the oil pump providing T-case lubrication. So that's all good news.

However, not so for the tranny. Even with the T-case in neutral, the viscous nature of the lube in the T-case will spin the T-case input shaft, which will in turn spin the output shaft of the tranny if it is left in neutral. This is where the trouble starts. The transmission will not lubricate the bearings if the tranny input shaft is not turning, so the bearings will starve for lube. Placing the transmission in gear (any gear) will prevent all of this from happening.

Hope this helps give you a better understanding.




I dug out my '91 Owner's Manual and quoted the following verbatim.

Page 125 of the 1991 Jeep Wrangler Owner's Manual states;

1. Shift transfer case to 2H and check that the 4WD light goes out.

2. Drive vehicle 10 ft. (3 m) rearward and then 10 ft. (3 m) forward to make sure the axle is disengaged.

3. Shift transmission to Neutral.

4. Turn off engine with the ignition key in the unlocked OFF position.
(NOT in the "LOCK" position, the steering wheel must be able to turn while flat towing!)

5. Shift transfer case lever from 2H to N (Neutral) position.

6. Shift manual transmission into gear or automatic transmission into P (Park).

WARNING: With the transfer case in N (Neutral) position, the vehicle could roll unexpectedly. The parking brake should always be applied before the tow bar is attached.

7. Attach vehicle to the tow vehicle with tow bar.

You cannot tow a YJ on a dolly with the rear driveshaft installed. YJ transfer cases do NOT have a "true neutral" position. This means that the front & rear driveshafts are CONNECTED to each other in neutral.


Max
__________________
Click here to see all of my different albums on Photobucket.
Choose any album to see all of my pics!


Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post
Max has a picture of every Jeep part ever made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderff View Post
No one here knows what they are talking about. You should try Pirate 4x4 they will be happy to help you.

There is no situation that cannot be improved with a small but well-placed explosive.
Mean Max is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 02:03 PM   #26
imstillatwork
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oregon Coast, Oregon
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuznick242 View Post
That's what I've been debating while reading all of this. And it has to disengage its self from the trans otherwise if it was in gear the engine would have to be running. There's no connection between the drive shafts and the transmission with the transfer case in N.
The problem with an NP231 Neutral is that it is not TRULY neutral...

2 hi
Transfer Case -> Transmission = engaged
Front axle to transfer Case = disengaged

N
Transfer Case -> Transmission = disengaged
Front axle to transfer Case = engaged

4 hi
Transfer Case -> Transmission = engaged
Front axle to transfer Case = engaged

4 lo
Transfer Case -> Transmission = engaged
Front axle to transfer Case = engaged
imstillatwork is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 02:06 PM   #27
imstillatwork
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oregon Coast, Oregon
Posts: 1,480
Encyclopedia MeanMax beat me by and hour and gave more detail - that's what I get for leaving the window open for an hour before replying!
imstillatwork is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 03:33 PM   #28
Mean Max
Don't poke the bear
 
Mean Max's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Stuart, Florida
Posts: 13,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by imstillatwork
Encyclopedia MeanMax beat me by and hour and gave more detail - that's what I get for leaving the window open for an hour before replying!
Hehe. I sure hope I don't come off as a know-it-all in times like these!

But actually, the NP231 models that are found in non-disconnect axles do have a "true neutral" and DON'T have syncronizers for shifting into 4wd.

NP231 models with CAD (Center Axle Disconnect) units don't have a true neutral, and DO have syncronizers for shifting into 4wd.

Either one can be retrofitted with regards to the true neutral (install a correct shift range plate) or the syncronizers (mainshafts will directly interchange) depending on your wants or needs.

If anyone is interested......

Max
__________________
Click here to see all of my different albums on Photobucket.
Choose any album to see all of my pics!


Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimatE View Post
Max has a picture of every Jeep part ever made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderff View Post
No one here knows what they are talking about. You should try Pirate 4x4 they will be happy to help you.

There is no situation that cannot be improved with a small but well-placed explosive.
Mean Max is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 04:18 PM   #29
TheNewbie
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Jct, CO
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Max View Post
For flat towing, the T-case must be in neutral, but the transmission must be in Park (automatic) or in gear (manual) during towing.

The T-case oil pump is driven from the output shaft of the T-case, so flat towing will turn the driveshafts and the oil pump providing T-case lubrication. So that's all good news.

However, not so for the tranny. Even with the T-case in neutral, the viscous nature of the lube in the T-case will spin the T-case input shaft, which will in turn spin the output shaft of the tranny if it is left in neutral. This is where the trouble starts. The transmission will not lubricate the bearings if the tranny input shaft is not turning, so the bearings will starve for lube. Placing the transmission in gear (any gear) will prevent all of this from happening.

Hope this helps give you a better understanding.




I dug out my '91 Owner's Manual and quoted the following verbatim.

Page 125 of the 1991 Jeep Wrangler Owner's Manual states;

1. Shift transfer case to 2H and check that the 4WD light goes out.

2. Drive vehicle 10 ft. (3 m) rearward and then 10 ft. (3 m) forward to make sure the axle is disengaged.

3. Shift transmission to Neutral.

4. Turn off engine with the ignition key in the unlocked OFF position.
(NOT in the "LOCK" position, the steering wheel must be able to turn while flat towing!)

5. Shift transfer case lever from 2H to N (Neutral) position.

6. Shift manual transmission into gear or automatic transmission into P (Park).

WARNING: With the transfer case in N (Neutral) position, the vehicle could roll unexpectedly. The parking brake should always be applied before the tow bar is attached.

7. Attach vehicle to the tow vehicle with tow bar.

You cannot tow a YJ on a dolly with the rear driveshaft installed. YJ transfer cases do NOT have a "true neutral" position. This means that the front & rear driveshafts are CONNECTED to each other in neutral.


Max
Thanks Max. I was going to be towing it like the manual says anyway, you know the famous Jeep forum saying "Chrylser know best" . But it still helps to know WHY I should do it that way. I though it had something to do with the fluid, but thanks for laying out the details like that
__________________
1995 YJ 2.5 - 4 RC lift - 1" MML - 33's - flat fenders front - TJ flares rear -Raptor lined exterior - Herc'd interior - DIY front bumper & winch plate - 136 amp alternator mod - 4.0 TB swap

My build thread...
I've got a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive...
TheNewbie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2011, 05:45 PM   #30
lincolnmatthews
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NW WA, washington
Posts: 106
Thanks Max, but here's a question for you, being were on this subject. Does all the forego info hold true for the 87 NP207 t/c?? regarding the neutral plate, etc. This is what I'm running for now till I change it out this winter. I have the manual trans. Thanks
lincolnmatthews is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.