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Unread 03-31-2009, 11:00 AM   #91
jeep-dangler
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As an owner of two turbo volvo's with a pile of spare parts, I must say I find this thread AWESOME!!! I love the turbo power curve. And he's right an 8 to 1 compression ration is perfect for boosting. THats the same compression as my volvo 850's 2.3 and it's boosting 16psi.
I am a fan of running a intercooler, it decreases/eliminates detonation potential. But the water meth injection does the same thing, just another method.
I think the hamster in my head just jumped on the wheel.... I smell somethin burning.

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Unread 03-31-2009, 11:14 AM   #92
provinT13
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^^ So you have 2 turbos or 2 volvos with turbos in them?
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Unread 03-31-2009, 09:34 PM   #93
scrapinrocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep-dangler View Post
As an owner of two turbo volvo's with a pile of spare parts, I must say I find this thread AWESOME!!! I love the turbo power curve. And he's right an 8 to 1 compression ration is perfect for boosting. THats the same compression as my volvo 850's 2.3 and it's boosting 16psi.
I am a fan of running a intercooler, it decreases/eliminates detonation potential. But the water meth injection does the same thing, just another method.
I think the hamster in my head just jumped on the wheel.... I smell somethin burning.
YEA SWEDEN!!!! i have a 89 Saab turbo that I built before the Jeep. Built motor, t3/t4 turbo, FMIC, lots of work, close to 400hp. nothing beats boost!!!!!!
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Unread 04-01-2009, 09:12 AM   #94
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saab's blow. FWD for the lose.


seriously though, scrapinrocks's Saab is the ultimate sleeper...
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Unread 04-01-2009, 09:32 AM   #95
Contra
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looks good, how does it preform off road?
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Unread 05-09-2009, 02:23 PM   #96
sprowley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapinrocks View Post
turbo is a t3-to4e, .63 exhaust side 50 trim compressor. its an ebay turbo made in china. oil was tee'd off the oil pressure sending unit and a drain into the pan. i'll come up with a parts list when i can sit down and go over everyhting. ill try to get better picts too. its holding up great, its not my daily but when its nice i'll take it out to lunch or something. it gets some confused looks. still running great looking foward to hittin the trails soon its going back to the dyno sunday jus tto see if anything has changed
A parts list would be fantastic, I'd love to do this to my 4.0L. I read a few pages back you said the total cost for your parts was around $500? That is an awesomely powerful mod for $500.

Only real question I have is how can we make it spool lower? With my axle gears I cruise at 55mph at 1600rpms and 70mph at 1950rpms. And anything under 45mph I'm cruising 1000-1250rpms in various gears. I'd like to add as much low low low end torque as is possible (Though wheeling and accelerating I do very often get up to 4500 or 5k rpms, so its not like your exact setup would be bad for me...)

So yeah, how can we make it spool a bit sooner? 1500rpms or so, I guess if lower is possible then that'd be awesome too. I've read a lot about diesel turbos and know they are meant to spool very low since huge diesel engines rarely rev past 1500 or 2000 rpms, but I just don't know enough about turbo tech to know what I'm doing yet.

Really appreciate you posting all this! Thanks dude
Sean
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Unread 05-10-2009, 01:43 AM   #97
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Oh another question, this one will seem out of place but I'll explain later after I've crunched some numbers:

how much force or pressure (preferably related in a measurement of power (watts) or torque) does it take for a turbo to produce x amount of boost? I'd like an equation so i can calculate it with any amount of boost, but i'd say 6psi would work fine for a one off number.

Thanks a lot
Sean
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Unread 05-10-2009, 09:24 AM   #98
Root Moose
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It's not calculated that way per se. You need to look at compressor maps to calculate how turbomachinery will work with a given setup. (simplified answer)

Pick up some books on building your own turbo systems. There used to be a book by Hugh McInnes (IIRC) that was quite good as an introduction.

edit: http://www.amazon.com/Turbochargers-...ref=pd_sim_b_2
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Unread 08-29-2009, 02:05 PM   #99
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Quote:
Only real question I have is how can we make it spool lower?
Smaller turbo. Heat wrapping exhaust pipes like that from the manifold-turbo help too. Possibly a smaller manifold-turbo pipe. Smaller charge pipe too. You'll get less top end with a small charge pipe but your spool time will be quicker. Larger downpipe and "catback" too to help those exhaust gases escape quicker. If you get a more complex engine management system you can increase pre spool timing and lean out the a/f ratios. That will create hotter exhaust gases which will spool the turbo quicker. Once you start doing that though you need to get more monitoring equipment such as a wideband, egt gauge, knock sensor, etc. That's a good size turbo that he chose. I personally wouldn't go with anything smaller than a 20g. What you're looking for is torque. It's all about gear selection on the highway and staying above your full boost rpm (for him it's ~2000). Accelerating below that point will still get you going quicker than a stock, non-turbo motor. For off road, just put it in 4wd low and experiment with gears and rpm ranges.

I have an awd turbo car running a 2.4 (stroked out from a 2.0) with a larger turbo (60-1) at 25psi. Gearing is different but I hit that full 25psi at 4000 rpms. So if I want to accelerate quickly on the highway, say from a 50mph roll, I'll put it in 3rd which places my rpms at ~4300. That way I can quickly roll into the throttle and take off (or get away )

The main reason I would want to turbo a Jeep is for towing capabilities. Stronger axles and a good turbo setup would greatly extend the possibilities.

Anyway, great ingenuity






"The replacement for displacement is the proper turbo emplacement."

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Unread 09-01-2009, 10:15 PM   #100
Ron_K
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Smaller A/R on the turbine will spool it faster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Root Moose View Post
It's not calculated that way per se. You need to look at compressor maps to calculate how turbomachinery will work with a given setup. (simplified answer)

Pick up some books on building your own turbo systems. There used to be a book by Hugh McInnes (IIRC) that was quite good as an introduction.

edit: Amazon.com: Turbochargers HP49 (HP Books): Turbo Design, Sizing & Matching, Spark-Ignition & Diesel Engine Applications, Water Injection, Controls, Carburetion, Intercooling, ... Street & Race Cars, Boats, Motorc (9780895861351): Hugh MacInnes: Books
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Unread 09-02-2009, 06:35 PM   #101
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this might sound stupid but i have a turbo off from a VW 1.8L GTI so its kinda small but i wanna turbo my 4.2L would that be a good turbo? or should i not even bother?
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Unread 09-02-2009, 07:27 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themonkeyman View Post
If he uses a liquid-to-air IC it will work just fine at low speeds.

Just my $.02
Yup, water - air IC works fine, for about 10 seconds, until heatsoak makes it worthless.

Fine at the drag strip, but on the trail or street I'd do air to air.

And ANY IC will help avoid fatal detonation. Meth is fine and dandy, but when the tank is empty or the pump fails, the FIRST time you hit high boost at low revs, you'll have an opportunity to do the stroker, thanks to the hole in the piston. Add safety limiters to the design for sure if only using methanol.
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Unread 09-02-2009, 07:33 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbullcustoms View Post
this might sound stupid but i have a turbo off from a VW 1.8L GTI so its kinda small but i wanna turbo my 4.2L would that be a good turbo? or should i not even bother?
If you actually believe you can do a custom turbo setup for 500 bucks, don't start. The fab work would run more than that, and the engine management and monitoring hardware alone will cost double that. Yes, IF you have a lot of turbo experience you can lie to the computer, and get away with it for a while, but no way will the motor be safe or reliable at anything over VERY mild boost levels, like 5psi or less, and even then, you REALLY need to know what you are doing to timing needs, fuel needs, and how to avoid detonation.

The idea of basing a turbo setup on what used turbo you happen to have sitting around is a BAD idea.
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The technical advice you get from me here is worth exactly what you paid me for it. Warranty issues will be reimbursed at double what you paid me for the advice.
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Unread 09-22-2009, 08:21 PM   #104
Ron_K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boodyrider View Post
If you actually believe you can do a custom turbo setup for 500 bucks, don't start. The fab work would run more than that, and the engine management and monitoring hardware alone will cost double that. Yes, IF you have a lot of turbo experience you can lie to the computer, and get away with it for a while, but no way will the motor be safe or reliable at anything over VERY mild boost levels, like 5psi or less, and even then, you REALLY need to know what you are doing to timing needs, fuel needs, and how to avoid detonation.

The idea of basing a turbo setup on what used turbo you happen to have sitting around is a BAD idea.
to add-
he's right-
You will need something like MegaSquirt or MicroSquirt to manage the setup.
Buy an assembled kit or if your like me build your own.
I Use Microtech's MT2 on my bike, but will be building a Megasquirt setup this winter.

Have fun, don't get greedy, and last but not least..."pay" for it once by not being Cheap the first time.

Peace-
Ron
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Unread 09-22-2009, 10:26 PM   #105
the_mork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprowley View Post
Only real question I have is how can we make it spool lower? With my axle gears I cruise at 55mph at 1600rpms and 70mph at 1950rpms. And anything under 45mph I'm cruising 1000-1250rpms in various gears. I'd like to add as much low low low end torque as is possible (Though wheeling and accelerating I do very often get up to 4500 or 5k rpms, so its not like your exact setup would be bad for me...)
Jeeps don't use an MAF so you can use one of these CSX 321 Buildup - The Dan Culkin Anti-Lag Valve ("D-valve") to make the motor spool a little faster and give you better off-boost performance. One thing to keep in mind is also what MAP sensor our engines use, offhand I have no idea what it is but with say a 2 bar map sensor you would be limited to about 14psi and I doubt that it is any bigger than that.

As for comments about building a turbo system being expensive I would have to disagree. You can build a megasquirt system for a few hundred dollars or just carefully monitor the motor with det cans and a wideband sensor for about $250. Turbos themselves are really quite cheap, for a used turbo off of any number of applications from a tiny Mitsubishi 14b to something quite large like an HX52 you can get away with a purchase price of less than $200 and if you know how to weld and cut then the fab work is fairly minimal. Personally I would be concerned about this with a YJ because AFAIK there are no logging tools readily available to read engine data from the ecu, at least with a TJ and up you can use the painfully slow but still useful obd2 interface. Then again people have been building turbo buicks forever and as long as you are monitoring knock (det cans) and AFR (wideband) then you have most of the data that you need.
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