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Unread 08-03-2012, 04:29 PM   #1
Michaelgoesrawr
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Failed Smog, again. High HC at Idle.

So I swapped in a fuel injected 4.2 into my Jeep a few weeks ago and just got it smoged today. It failed because HC is high at idle. The mechanic said the timing seemed off and when he put a light on it, he said it was jumpy. Now I don't know what this means but he suggested a new distributor because he retarded the timing all the way and it still wouldn't pass. I don't know how to install one, but could probably figure it out in enough time, but what do you guys think? I'm tired of this thing sitting around.



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Unread 08-03-2012, 09:24 PM   #2
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Here is the 3 plug. It's half white and half brown.
All of them look like this too. If that helps anything.
image-2603666862.jpg   image-1789129776.jpg  
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Unread 08-03-2012, 11:14 PM   #3
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Plugs look a little worn/old, but normal otherwise. One side is directly exposed to the fire and will get toasted more. Did you do a tune up (oil/plugs/wires/cap/rotor) before getting it smogged?

From what I understand, an erratic timing mark (or jumpy as the smog tech described it) could be either the timing chain or the distributor.
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Unread 08-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonRubicon
Plugs look a little worn/old, but normal otherwise. One side is directly exposed to the fire and will get toasted more. Did you do a tune up (oil/plugs/wires/cap/rotor) before getting it smogged?

From what I understand, an erratic timing mark (or jumpy as the smog tech described it) could be either the timing chain or the distributor.
There is a small amount of build up on the fire side of the plugs. Nope. I've never done a tune up. So if you were in my boat, would you replace the distributor and the cap and rotor and wires and get it smogged again?
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Unread 08-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #5
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Before delving into replacing the dizzy or the timing chain, do a full tune up - it's generally recommended to do one before getting a vehicle smogged. Bad wires/plugs/cap/rotor could all cause erratic timing marks because the timing light flashes based on the spark read on the #1 wire, and poorly timed spark may result in unburned HCs. If you haven't done the team rush upgrade I recommend doing so. It is an inexpensive upgrade and well worth it.

Once you've done the tune up, check the timing again (use a good quality timing gun - don't go cheap) to see if the timing mark is still erratic at idle. Even with a mid-range priced inductive timing gun I've found that sometimes the inductive pickup doesn't always read correctly. The mark should be fairly steady as long as the timing gun is hooked up right and working properly.

Besides the dizzy and timing chain, problems with the coil and ICM could potentially cause erratic timing.
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Unread 08-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #6
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I've thought about doing that but when I priced it it came out to around 200 bucks which I don't think is cheap lol. But that's for msd stuff from
Napa. I'm sure I could get it for less at autozone. I'll look into it again. I just want to be sure before I got blow another 50 bucks to get it smogged.
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Unread 08-04-2012, 07:00 PM   #7
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The timing gun is more of a tool investment in my mind, particularly if you plan on doing most of your own wrenching on your Jeep. Get something that's the best quality available within your budget. Use it a few times and it pays for itself.

I picked up a digital inductive timing gun from Autozone (ran about $120 or so), but look around on Amazon.com too for any deals too. Sometimes you'll find the exact same tool for cheaper on Amazon (even including shipping) than you'll find it locally. Not bad if you can wait a few days for delivery.
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Unread 08-04-2012, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonRubicon
The timing gun is more of a tool investment in my mind, particularly if you plan on doing most of your own wrenching on your Jeep. Get something that's the best quality available within your budget. Use it a few times and it pays for itself.

I picked up a digital inductive timing gun from Autozone (ran about $120 or so), but look around on Amazon.com too for any deals too. Sometimes you'll find the exact same tool for cheaper on Amazon (even including shipping) than you'll find it locally. Not bad if you can wait a few days for delivery.
Sorry I meant the team rush stuff. We have a timing gun out in the garage. Probably a harbor freight tool though. Lol.
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Unread 08-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #9
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The basic Team Rush stuff shouldn't be too expensive if you find the right source. Cap/adapter/rotor/plugs are really inexpensive - just make sure the cap has solid brass terminals. No need to go fancy on the plugs - the simple copper ones do the job just fine. The wires and coil are the most pricey parts, with the coil being optional. It'll run fine without the coil upgrade, I didn't do the coil until later when I had the extra money, but the coil will make a difference. I got the cap/adapter/rotor/plugs from Autozone, wires from SummitRacing.com, and eventually the Blaster 2F coil from a local Hot Rod shop.

Still check online for deals. Sometimes you can get stuff for much less than you could from local shops if you don't mind the wait. I bought a torque wrench from Amazon.com and got 3-5 day shipping all for less than what the local Sears store wanted for the exact same wrench.
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Unread 08-07-2012, 04:30 PM   #10
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I'm looking into the Team Rush stuff again and since you said I can use the stock coil I plan on doing it. Do you think i'll have any problem because it has a howell fuel injection kit on the motor? Do you need to upgrade the ICM at all? I also see a bunch of stuff about HEI distributors and I'm not sure what that is either. Any more info or an explanation that can over come my stupid?

Edit: I've read this http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/i-...nitive-669495/ but it doesn't say anything about the HEI or ICM with fuel injection.

Edit, 2: Is an e-coil really any better than an upgraded stock type coil? If it's that much better I won't mind trying to fab a bracket for it and figure out the wiring, but if it's just smaller I'd prefer to stick with the round coil. Any advice or insight? When the time comes of course.
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Unread 08-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #11
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I have the stock ICM on my YJ, Team Rushed with the California Howell TBI kit and it runs it fine and passed smog no problem. HEI dizzys just puts the coil right on top of the distributor, I've heard of benefits and drawbacks to going HEI.

Don't know of the e-coil is significantly better than a beefed up stock style coil. The e-coil uses a different type of wire connector between the coil and dizzy cap than does the stock style (Blaster 2F) coil. You can get adapters though. I picked up the MSD Blaster 2F because it was recommended as a direct swap in and I already had wires that would work with it. The Blaster 2F happens to be C.A.R.B. approved too (comes with a shiny sticker with the E.O.#), but in any case it looks stock and fits in the stock mount with only a little coaxing needed. The e-coil is not C.A.R.B legal to my knowledge.

With that said, any aftermarket non-OEM parts must be C.A.R.B. approved. Because the Team Rush upgrade uses components from a 82 Ford F-150, it isn't technically C.A.R.B legal to put on a YJ, but I seriously any smog tech would notice the difference, let alone care since it actually improves spark delivery over the OEM parts
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Unread 08-07-2012, 07:30 PM   #12
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Your mechanic is an idiot. Replacing the distributor because he can not set the timing? Find someone who understands his craft.
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Unread 08-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #13
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Maybe I missed it but I didn't catch what Fuel Injection you had? I'll assume Howell TBI. More than likely your mechanic doesn't know how to set the timing on the Jeep. It's been a while for me since I switched to the MPI system. If you check Haynes or Chiltons it clearly explains that you set the timing at a higher RPM than idle. The first time I smogged my jeep when it was still carb gave me a fail as I thought I was smarter than the book and set the timing without getting the RPM's to the required point. If you don't have one of the repair books for your jeep, buy one. You're better off fixing and learning on your own or joining a Jeep club and there are plenty of people that love working on jeeps that would be happy to help another jeeper in need.
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Unread 08-07-2012, 11:50 PM   #14
Michaelgoesrawr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plym49
Your mechanic is an idiot. Replacing the distributor because he can not set the timing? Find someone who understands his craft.
I never said he couldn't. Lol. He said the light he got was erratic.
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Unread 08-07-2012, 11:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbland123
Maybe I missed it but I didn't catch what Fuel Injection you had? I'll assume Howell TBI. More than likely your mechanic doesn't know how to set the timing on the Jeep. It's been a while for me since I switched to the MPI system. If you check Haynes or Chiltons it clearly explains that you set the timing at a higher RPM than idle. The first time I smogged my jeep when it was still carb gave me a fail as I thought I was smarter than the book and set the timing without getting the RPM's to the required point. If you don't have one of the repair books for your jeep, buy one. You're better off fixing and learning on your own or joining a Jeep club and there are plenty of people that love working on jeeps that would be happy to help another jeeper in need.
Yeah it's the Howell. As far as I know my uncle picked it up off craigslist and installed it on the motor. I can't get the damn kit to idle under 1000. I set it per Howells instructions and nothing. I don't want this damn thing to be at 12-1300 everytime I drive it. So maybe you can provide insight.

And I have no idea if he knows his stuff or not. He seems to. My girlfriends family has been taking their cars to them for years upon years which is the only reason I go there. He has a Cherokee himself and he knows the Howell kits are good stuff. And again he told me he was getting an erratic light when he checked the timing and retarding the timing didn't get it to pass. His words. Lol.

Edit: I also have two of those books and I'm trying to figure out how to fix it on my own lol. That's why I've been here for two years lol. I've never looked at them for timing though as I didn't feel that was really my issue. The mechanic never said I can do this for you and whatnot. He said I'd do this. Once you get it done bring it back and I'll check it over again. No charge.
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