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Unread 11-24-2013, 03:36 PM   #46
Springer45
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So I'm going to be installing a cv rear driveshaft, with a 4" lift will I have to purchase a front double Cardon shaft for the front as well? I'm going to remove the transmission drop kit as soon as my sye is installed and I don't want to have issues with the front ds.

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Unread 11-25-2013, 09:02 AM   #47
StanF
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Originally Posted by Springer45 View Post
So I'm going to be installing a cv rear driveshaft, with a 4" lift will I have to purchase a front double Cardon shaft for the front as well? I'm going to remove the transmission drop kit as soon as my sye is installed and I don't want to have issues with the front ds.
Your original driveshaft should be fine because of two things that keep the angles in your favor:

1) Your Jeep has a high pinion Dana 30

2) The front DS is much longer than the rear DS, so the angle is less

As a side note, some (or all?) of the Jeep TJs use a DC front driveshaft, but they generally had a low pinion Dana 30.
(I'm not a TJ expert and am not sure of all the various year TJs, and if they all had low pinion Dana 30s, and if they all had DC fronts. )
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Unread 11-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #48
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*Good trail repair tip: If you lose your rear driveshaft and need to get home on the front driveshaft, keep a 20oz plastic water/soda bottle in your jeep (full or empty is your preference) and a roll of duct tape (this should be in any Jeep regardless). After removing the rear driveshaft, cut the bottle in half and slide the top end of the bottle over the rear of the transfer case and use duct tape to secure in place. The bottle should be a perfect fit and it will keep you from losing most of the fluid. To reclaim the fluid just unscrew the cap off of the bottle and let drain into a container.

Also works great for driving w/o a rear drive shaft to test for driveline vibes.
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Unread 12-03-2013, 10:03 PM   #49
Springer45
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So I have everything installed. My sye, ds, a couple shims and I removed the tcase drop. My ds is now measuring 20* and my pinion is at 15*. In order to be within the correct angle tolerances I need to move it up 5* but I believe my rc kit came with a 4* and they only make an 8*. So I'm wondering if as I move up does the ds angle change and will I end up somewhere in the middle at like a 6* shim (20*-15*=5*/2 (the difference of the ds flattening as I raise the pinion)=2.5*+4* stock rc shim =6.5* shim)? Or/And if I end up using a 8* do I need to worry about good lubrication ? If so how do I solve that problem ? Has anyone looked into the angle of standard shims on a 4" rc lift kit? I'd like to know stock angle?
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Unread 12-04-2013, 06:28 AM   #50
StanF
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Originally Posted by Springer45 View Post
So I have everything installed. My sye, ds, a couple shims and I removed the tcase drop. My ds is now measuring 20* and my pinion is at 15*. In order to be within the correct angle tolerances I need to move it up 5* but I believe my rc kit came with a 4* and they only make an 8*. So I'm wondering if as I move up does the ds angle change and will I end up somewhere in the middle at like a 6* shim (20*-15*=5*/2 (the difference of the ds flattening as I raise the pinion)=2.5*+4* stock rc shim =6.5* shim)? Or/And if I end up using a 8* do I need to worry about good lubrication ? If so how do I solve that problem ? Has anyone looked into the angle of standard shims on a 4" rc lift kit? I'd like to know stock angle?
A picture is worth a thousand words

Shims are available from Amazon, Quadratec, etc, in various angle increments, so get the exact one you need to get your pinion set right. (I would personally only use one angle shim - don't stack them).

1 or 2 degrees below is the general recommendation.

Worst case - put in what you have and try it. If you get vibes, you'll know it immediately.
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Unread 12-04-2013, 10:23 PM   #51
Springer45
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A picture is worth a thousand words

Shims are available from Amazon, Quadratec, etc, in various angle increments, so get the exact one you need to get your pinion set right. (I would personally only use one angle shim - don't stack them).

1 or 2 degrees below is the general recommendation.

Worst case - put in what you have and try it. If you get vibes, you'll know it immediately.
Not sure why I would think to stack them? But I wont thanks. I have posted pics. The ds is probably a different angle now but you can see the shims. As for the angles I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction with just the math. Whenever I post pics someone tells me to measure angles and vise verse. Can anyone tell me if my math is at least correct? I'm getting vibes but mostly when I get going above about 45mph. The lower speeds aren't as noticeable. But it's definitely the ds
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Unread 12-05-2013, 07:18 AM   #52
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Your pictures aren't showing up...
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Unread 12-05-2013, 09:01 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer45 View Post
I got measurements 17 rear 14 did and 11 tcase yoke. From my understanding the first and last should be the same? What is the most drastic angle my ds can be at without problems?

"If your stock drive shaft is now too short, which I fear it is, the angle's on the u-joints will be more than they can handle." Jeffro06

What would you do given the angles I just posted? Am I screwed should I just get a sye and cvdriveshaft? If so should I leave the shims on the leaf springs? Or take them off and check my angles after install?
First welcome to Jeep Forum, Check out the Utah Section in the Wheeling neighborhood there are tons of us here that are active

Your driveshaft angle looks to be the issue, I would change out the shim's with new shims that have less of a degree built in so your angle at the yoke are the same. From the sound of your description I assume you bought your Axles from Russ Long (DR JEEP) in Provo. If you would like I work in Midvale, we could meet up and I could go for a ride in your Jeep to help diagnose the noise for you.


Edit* Seeing you bought the Tera Mega short SYE, When you goto buy driveshaft you can goto a Pick and pull yard and get a front shaft and have it shortened for around $100 , Or buy a new shaft at GRS or tattons
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Unread 12-05-2013, 12:41 PM   #54
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First welcome to Jeep Forum, Check out the Utah Section in the Wheeling neighborhood there are tons of us here that are active

Your driveshaft angle looks to be the issue, I would change out the shim's with new shims that have less of a degree built in so your angle at the yoke are the same. From the sound of your description I assume you bought your Axles from Russ Long (DR JEEP) in Provo. If you would like I work in Midvale, we could meet up and I could go for a ride in your Jeep to help diagnose the noise for you.


Edit* Seeing you bought the Tera Mega short SYE, When you goto buy driveshaft you can goto a Pick and pull yard and get a front shaft and have it shortened for around $100 , Or buy a new shaft at GRS or tattons
That sounds good man. My angle has changed now that I put the sye and cv shaft on. But it's still off. Hopefully this good weather sticks around long enough to thaw one more time I have some work left to do on my jeep. I'll probably be available this weekend or next week. Let me know what's good for you and I'll make time. I just bought a tom woods for it. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Unread 12-25-2013, 12:56 PM   #55
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So my transfer case/transmission is now leaking. It started leaking before I did my SYE install. The guy that rebuilt my automatic transmission pulled the transfer case replaced the rear output seal of the transmission and put it back together. He blamed the leak on me saying that I beat up the rear output seal of the transmission when I reinstalled the transfer case. I never pulled the transfer case. I was thinking it happened when I reinstalled the mainshaft. However after doing some research on the np231 I can see that the mainshaft never makes contact with the transmission. There is what's called a input shaft. It's the only thing that makes contact with the transmission. Am I wrong is this guy just blaming the stuff on me? It's leaking again I don't want him to try to charge me. Is there any way that he could've been the one causing this to leak instead of me? Could installing the transfer case cause the input seal on the transfer case to leak? When I first bought the jeep I noticed the guy before me had put gasket maker between the transmission and transfer case. From my understanding that is unnecessary. Both the transmission and transfer case should have their own seal? If it's not the transmission leaking could I just put some gasket maker between the two and get it to stop, Or if I'm going to the trouble of removing the transfer case is it easier just to replace the input seal of the transfer case? Obviously I've never worked on the transfer case before aside from the sye kit.

Last edited by Springer45; 12-25-2013 at 12:57 PM.. Reason: Typing error
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Unread 12-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #56
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Reading is great and all but I'm looking for answers. I've read a lot but I need to act soon. I'll read later. After the minimum amount of reading I've done, am I not correct on the issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer45 View Post
...However after doing some research on the np231 I can see that the mainshaft never makes contact with the transmission. There is what's called a input shaft. It's the only thing that makes contact with the transmission. Am I wrong is this guy just blaming the stuff on me?...Obviously I've never worked on the transfer case before aside from the sye kit.
Asking questions is great and I think we've all asked idiot or newbie questions and been embarrassed about it later. It's one thing to confirm what you have learned by reading in a forum like this... but one does have to have a basic understanding of the principles of mechanics and spend a little time reading. Nobody here owes you anything.

But now that you have done some research, you are wiser. If you installed the SYE while the t-case was in the vehicle and never removed or reinstalled the transfer case from the transmission or removed the input gear then I would conclude this wouldn't be your fault.
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Unread 12-25-2013, 05:37 PM   #57
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You are right - the transmission and transfer case are two completely separate components. They do not share any fluid and are sealed separately. Gasket maker between them is pointless.

As the poster above said. You would not have caused a transmission leak by doing SYE with the TC still connected to the transmission.
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Unread 12-25-2013, 06:19 PM   #58
Springer45
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Ya the mechanic that supposedly fixed the leak and blamed it on me acted like he was doing me a favor. Yet I've never meet a hardworking tradesman that was willing to do a job twice unless it was his fault. He kept saying that the seal was extremely beat up and I wanted to simply say "well then I guess your guys should be more careful." I walked away unsure of what really happened but now I know for sure it was him. He's definitely getting a bad review online. I should've just gone to aamco for my transmission rebuild. This is my dd so it really puts me out time and a vehicle. I'm considering doing the work myself. I think he is also overfilling the transmission. It might be the cause of the seal leaking.
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Unread 12-26-2013, 10:09 AM   #59
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The tera flex kit is nice! I think the SYE kit with a CV shaft will save you in the long run. But, you really need to make sure the angles are correct regardless. I hate using shims or wedges -- welding is preferred. It did look like your rear pinion angle was too much in the one pic. Most guys try to put it so the pinion is down by about 2 degrees compared to the driveshaft, this makes up for the axle torque when you take off, so that when you are moving everything is in line. Zero vibrations that way.
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Unread 01-02-2014, 10:05 PM   #60
Springer45
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K so I've been having bad vibrations. I removed the front driveshaft and they almost completely left. I don't know if it's the angles or if it's that my front driveshaft was never balanced. I have done the cheap conversion to my front axle bypassing the pneumatic switch, so my driveshaft is constantly spinning. I have a 4 " lift, is it common to have to put a cv shaft on the front? Or to change the angle of the front pinion? Will balancing the shaft most likely fix my problem or do I need to buy a double Cardon for the front as well? Anyone with experience with a 4" lift that has suggestions?
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