does this mean i need a new clutch? - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-09-2007, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
9erHIGH
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does this mean i need a new clutch?

i have an 87 4banger.
clutch pedal is getting awful soft and spongey.
it's difficult to shift.
this is a sporatic issue.
it usually happens during the middle of the day,
when it's warmer outside,
or after i've been driving for at least 30 min.
it doesnt usually happen at night,
or on short drives (about 20 min or less.)
but it doesnt always follow this pattern,
at times it's ok on long drives,
and sometimes it acts up immediately.
the clutch (master and slave) was replaced about 4 years ago,
and i only drive about 8-10K mi/year since i live on an island.
i replaced the fluid back in dec and the level is fine,
so i dont think it's that (but i'm still pretty much a novice.)

i'd usually like to do this work myself,
but i'm pretty busy with 2 jobs right now,
and i dont want to get half way thru replacing the clutch
and have something unexpected come up and have no car to get to work.
it can be hard to get parts(the right parts anyway) on maui sometimes.
i know a mechanic who i trust pretty well and he says he
can replace the clutch for about 600,
but he has yet to take a look at it,
and i want to get some 2nd opinions first.

thoughts about the issue and/or thoughts about doing myself vs. paying 600 are appreciated.

thanks.

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post #2 of 14 Old 04-09-2007, 04:03 PM
EJames1226
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The structure of this thread makes me think it should be a blues song.

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post #3 of 14 Old 04-10-2007, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
9erHIGH
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that's cuz i was listening to some muddy waters as i was writing this...
but no. seriously...
...is my clutch gone or what?
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post #4 of 14 Old 04-10-2007, 06:00 AM
mean90yj
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possibly the slave cylinder? if you have external it wouldn't be too hard to check, but if its internal, it'll cost you about as much to replace the clutch as it would to replace the slave. the PO on my jeep took it to a shop and it ended up being like 350 i think. He never sent me the bill.

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post #5 of 14 Old 04-10-2007, 03:35 PM
91JeepYJ
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my YJ does this from time to time and it is the clutch master cylinder...i have replaced everything, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, master cylinder slave cylinder etc...i just keep a bottle of brake fluid with me...i think it's a jeep thing...
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post #6 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
9erHIGH
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i'm not sure if that makes me less or more confused about what i should do...

the fluid level never seems to be too low and the problem is too frequent to just try to add fluid that often anyway.

mean90yg,
what is a PO anyway?
post office?
parole officer?
purchase order?
pissed off?
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 04:21 PM
Matt87YJ
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PO = Previous owner, and it sounds like a slave cylinder to me.

'87 Wrangler, Stroked with a few other toys...
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post #8 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 04:23 PM
Ares
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You may need to try bleeding your clutch fluid. The bleed screw is on the tranny bellhousing above the feed line for the slave cylinder.

You could try taking it to the jeep dealer and having them diagnose it. Then, just see how much more it would be to fix the issue, and decided from there if you want to tackle it yourself or if its worth having someone else do it for you.

My guess would be maybe a sticky slave cylinder personally, or your DOT3 clutch fluid is bad, or htey put the wrong fluid in to begin with. At any rate, any of those three will require you to at least replace the slave cylinder to fix the issue
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 05:54 PM
unrealtrip
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It sounds like the slave cylinder is leaking internally which is why your fluid level is not changing. A leaking slave would create all of the problems you mentioned and should be external and is very easy to replace.

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 06:13 PM
pyro9862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
You may need to try bleeding your clutch fluid. The bleed screw is on the tranny bellhousing above the feed line for the slave cylinder.

You could try taking it to the jeep dealer and having them diagnose it. Then, just see how much more it would be to fix the issue, and decided from there if you want to tackle it yourself or if its worth having someone else do it for you.

My guess would be maybe a sticky slave cylinder personally, or your DOT3 clutch fluid is bad, or htey put the wrong fluid in to begin with. At any rate, any of those three will require you to at least replace the slave cylinder to fix the issue
If you don't have it fixed there they will charge you to diagnose it. They don't want people coming in and having them figure out what is wrong just to do the work themselves or run around and find the lowest bid. We went over that in GD a few weeks ago when someone started complaining the dealer charged him $100 when he did exactly what you suggested.
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 06:18 PM
pyro9862
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It does sound like a slave though. Try bleeding it, if that fails replace it. If you're concerned about being stuck needing parts just change everything. You will still come it at under $600, have better quality parts, and a whole new clutch system.

Just get all the parts together before you begin.
Clutch / pressure plate / throwout bearing / pilot bushing
Slave cylinder / Master Cylinder
Clutch lines / Clams if you need them
Shift fork
Brake fluid
RTV
Correct fluid for the transmission and transfer case and a way to put it in
Have a place you know you can take your flywheel or get a new one
Get some E-torx sockets if you don't already have them. Sometimes the top bell housing bolt is e-torx.
Make sure you have sockets for the transmission drain and fill plugs, and the transfer case drain and fill plugs.
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-11-2007, 07:29 PM
Ares
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro9862
If you don't have it fixed there they will charge you to diagnose it. They don't want people coming in and having them figure out what is wrong just to do the work themselves or run around and find the lowest bid. We went over that in GD a few weeks ago when someone started complaining the dealer charged him $100 when he did exactly what you suggested.
Well...yea. You have to pay them for their time. I thought that was understood

however, if they figure what it is for like...say...$100, and want $400 to fix it...and you can get the part for $50 and do it yourself...

Just helps to have the people who made the jeep narrow it down for you instead of guessing what is wrong, replacing it, and being mistaken and having it be something else
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-12-2007, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
9erHIGH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro9862
It does sound like a slave though. Try bleeding it, if that fails replace it. If you're concerned about being stuck needing parts just change everything. You will still come it at under $600, have better quality parts, and a whole new clutch system.

Just get all the parts together before you begin.
Clutch / pressure plate / throwout bearing / pilot bushing
Slave cylinder / Master Cylinder
Clutch lines / Clams if you need them
Shift fork
Brake fluid
RTV
Correct fluid for the transmission and transfer case and a way to put it in
Have a place you know you can take your flywheel or get a new one
Get some E-torx sockets if you don't already have them. Sometimes the top bell housing bolt is e-torx.
Make sure you have sockets for the transmission drain and fill plugs, and the transfer case drain and fill plugs.
cool, thanks.
that's very informative.
back in january i flushed the entire system and put new fluid.
that helped immediately, but didnt get it 100% better.
just made it managable (before that there'd be times when i couldnt shift at all!)
after a couple good months the problems slowly came right back
and now i'm back to where if i've been driving for a while at mid-day,
i might loose the all pressure on the clutch pedal
and the abilitiy to shift.
getting it into reverse sometimes only happens
by turning the engine off, then shifting into R.
either way, it's a pretty uneasy feeling.
i think i'm just gonna replace the whole system,
rather than just do the slave and find out later i shoulda done everything
and end up paying more in the long run.
in the past i havent changed the fluid yearly,
but just kept the level ok.
do you think if i change the fluid yearly (or every 18 mos)
that might help extend the life of the clutch?
i guess common sense says yes,
but on the geo prism i had before this it was never an issue.
i guess it's worth the headache to be driving a jeep instead of a geo

thanks again everybody!
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-12-2007, 10:10 AM
jimaug87
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try replacing your clutch fluid with good DOT3 brake fluid. make sure its good and bled.

if your clutch was going you would notice slipping. try to accelerate, rpm's would increase, but your speed would stay the same or drop. if thats not happening then your clutch plates are still sticking and your good.

instead of going to the dealership, why cant you have your trusted mechanic guy check it out for a small fee.
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