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Unread 05-18-2012, 07:03 PM   #91
purdueme06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techonehundred View Post
Ok, have a weird one to me. The clutch was working just fine, in traffic and one push it was working and the next it would go almost all the way down and just feel solid. I pulled the slave cylinder and there is no indication of oil or where it was leaking. I checked fluid level, it was low, but not empty. the only weird thing is when I put it back in the bell housing, there is no resistance before the nuts are tightened in other words it does not feel like it is contacting the clutch lever. how far in should the clutch lever be inside the housing? Could it be that the clutch lever is bent inside the housing? 95K on the Jeep Sahara 4.0. Looks like I need to pull the trans to see.
Sometimes it doesn't require leaking for a hydraulic cylinder (brakes, clutch, etc) to fail. The seal rings they use on the actual pistons can go bad and allow fluid around them, thus not contributing to the force of the input.

This happened in both the cases I described above. One way to tell if this is the case is to press the pedal down quickly. It should feel like it is working because of the viscosity of the fluid. However, if you press it down slowly the fluid is allowed through the breaks in the seal and your pedal will sink.

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Unread 05-20-2012, 09:09 PM   #92
atomicjoe23
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The seals were what was bad on my master cylinder, once I replaced the master and bled the system everything was back to normal.
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Unread 03-21-2013, 04:44 PM   #93
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I'm pretty adept at most repairs, it wouldn't have been hard to figure out my M/C swap on-the-fly, but I gotta say, this thread was fantastic just to give me a "preview" of what I was going to run into (and yes, mine has the same leak around the pushrod as in post #3). Props to Mean Max for the excellent write-up and pictures!
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Unread 03-21-2013, 06:09 PM   #94
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I'm pretty adept at most repairs, it wouldn't have been hard to figure out my M/C swap on-the-fly, but I gotta say, this thread was fantastic just to give me a "preview" of what I was going to run into (and yes, mine has the same leak around the pushrod as in post #3). Props to Mean Max for the excellent write-up and pictures!
You're welcome!

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Unread 03-22-2013, 07:02 PM   #95
Soundy
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Ugh, I think I've done something stupid...

So the roll pin did not want to come out for ANYTHING. I didn't have a suitable punch that would let me get at it while still mounted, so I pulled the cylinder off its mounts, figured I'd work the hose off and then drive the pin out on the bench. Yeah, except the hose didn't want to come off... so I got frustrated and cut it off, figuring there was lots of length and I could just push it back on after.

Yeah, not so much. So now I have the new cylinder, new O-ring, old fitting, new roll pin, all nicely assembled... and a $%*^@ of a time trying to get the hose back on. Thought maybe I could soften it a bit by warming it up with a heat gun on low? Any other thoughts? Or am I screwed now?
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Unread 03-23-2013, 10:13 AM   #96
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Ugh, I think I've done something stupid...

So the roll pin did not want to come out for ANYTHING. I didn't have a suitable punch that would let me get at it while still mounted, so I pulled the cylinder off its mounts, figured I'd work the hose off and then drive the pin out on the bench. Yeah, except the hose didn't want to come off... so I got frustrated and cut it off, figuring there was lots of length and I could just push it back on after.

Yeah, not so much. So now I have the new cylinder, new O-ring, old fitting, new roll pin, all nicely assembled... and a $%*^@ of a time trying to get the hose back on. Thought maybe I could soften it a bit by warming it up with a heat gun on low? Any other thoughts? Or am I screwed now?
Nope, not screwed.

What year Jeep do you have?

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Unread 03-23-2013, 10:14 AM   #97
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'92. I've seen other threads about a complete line replacement and such... I was doing the MC swap to get ready for a wheeling meet on Sunday, so I don't have time for any of that (unless I can find the parts at my local Lordco). Someone else suggested heating up the fitting to push it into the hose...

*sigh* yay impatience.
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Unread 03-23-2013, 10:43 AM   #98
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'92. I've seen other threads about a complete line replacement and such... I was doing the MC swap to get ready for a wheeling meet on Sunday, so I don't have time for any of that (unless I can find the parts at my local Lordco). Someone else suggested heating up the fitting to push it into the hose...

*sigh* yay impatience.
Internal slave.

I have a line for it, but I'm out of town until Monday.

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Unread 01-27-2014, 06:43 AM   #99
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Awesome and very informative. I am new to this game, but I now feel confident that I could do this job. Thanks!
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Unread 02-23-2014, 12:58 PM   #100
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clutch goes to floor

Ok so went off-roading yesterday drove all the way home and and about to jump off interstate and clutch pedal goes to floor. limp it to gas station and check master cylinder and it where it was before I left. Its hard to shift gears while running but if I shut jeep off and put it in to desired gear it will go into gear if I try to shift out that gear into another it wont let me and I am then in neutral. I get home and inspect entire system and its all intact no leaks, except for the rear main seal. The clutch is about 1.5 years old and is a LUK brand, I have never replaced the master or the line that goes to slave. What are the odds that my master is bad? I mean it drove fine all day no hint of an issue an then it just went to floor. There is a little pedal towards the bottom but not much at all.
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Unread 02-23-2014, 01:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by sardog211 View Post
Ok so went off-roading yesterday drove all the way home and and about to jump off interstate and clutch pedal goes to floor. limp it to gas station and check master cylinder and it where it was before I left. Its hard to shift gears while running but if I shut jeep off and put it in to desired gear it will go into gear if I try to shift out that gear into another it wont let me and I am then in neutral. I get home and inspect entire system and its all intact no leaks, except for the rear main seal. The clutch is about 1.5 years old and is a LUK brand, I have never replaced the master or the line that goes to slave. What are the odds that my master is bad? I mean it drove fine all day no hint of an issue an then it just went to floor. There is a little pedal towards the bottom but not much at all.
These hydraulic systems can leak internally, past the pistons in the bore, and show no signs or external fluid loss. I honestly can't suggest which component went bad, but you may end up changing them both. This isn't such a bad idea though, since replacing one (known or unknown to be bad) element of the system generally puts a greater load on the other component than it is "accustomed to" and then that one subsequently fails.
Of course, I am making some assumptions--that the fluid "where it was before" means it was full and still is, and you have nothing gone bad in the linkage where the rod from your master comes thru the firewall and then connects to your clutch pedal.
I suppose you could try bleeding the system first, but it's hard to make an argument for suddenly somehow magically some air managed to find its way into your clutch hydraulic system. This though is easier than dropping your trans to put in a new internal slave. And if you do, I'd try to get an OEM clutch master from the stealership, costs more but so many people on this forum have replaced their internals 2 to 3 times to come up with a good one from a local parts store. Your call on that one..........but I do see you put in a new slave 1.5 yrs ago when you did your clutch, right? Throw in a new master, and take it for a drive. It will declare itself pretty quick.

TL;DR?---replace master.
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We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
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yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
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You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 02-23-2014, 02:18 PM   #102
sardog211
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yes when I replaced the clutch I did it all, clutch kit with fly wheel, throwout bearing, it all got replaced the only things that were not touched was the hydraulic clutch hose and the master cylinder. So I am hoping it is not the slave if it is I may just retrofit the 94 external in. That is more money of course but better off in the long run, we shall see. I think I am going to get a master from local parts store, are these fairly reliable or prone to failing as well? Can understand how it can leak but show loss of fluid in master cylinder, that fluid had to go somewhere.... It was right in between low and full on the reservoir.

what is TL;DR--- Replace master?
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Unread 02-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #103
atomicjoe23
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The internal fluid leak is a leak past the piston. . .so the fluid is basically not being compressed or at least not enough to be functional.
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Unread 02-23-2014, 02:58 PM   #104
Opihi59
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Originally Posted by sardog211 View Post
Can understand how it can leak but show loss of fluid in master cylinder, that fluid had to go somewhere.... It was right in between low and full on the reservoir.
So did I misread you then? I understood that your clutch master cylinder showed that you had NOT lost any fluid. If you have not lost fluid from the reservoir, then leak could be internal....past the piston in the bore.
If you have an RMS leak, the presence of engine oil can mask the loss of fluid from the internal clutch slave. Oil just feels oily, but brake fluid (what is used in the clutch hydraulic system) has a "warming" feeling to it when you rub it between your fingers. Get some clean DOT3 and try it once, you'll understand what I mean. It is possible by feel to tell the difference between these fluids by feeling them, unless perhaps one is too contaminated by the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sardog211 View Post
what is TL;DR--- replace master
Internet forumspeak for "Too Long; Didn't Read" at least on Reddit, and it is the bottom line in case you didn't want to struggle thru all of my reply. The bottom line then is replace your master.

Here's a reference: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl%3Bdr Generally if someone knows that they are posting perhaps too much detail for either the general audience, or the OP to read thru to get to the bottom line, then it seems polite to just post up the bottom line recommendation without the embellishment. If anyone wants to know the reason for the recommendation, THEN they can pick thru the reasoning in the long and verbose post.


And in all humility, Mean Max if I am loading your helpful thread up with gibberish, I can delete my entries. Thanks for doing what you do for jeepforum in general, and the offroading community at large.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 02-23-2014, 04:08 PM   #105
sardog211
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Got ya, well I read it all. Got a new master and will install it tonight, that will tell me whether or not I got lucky with it not being the slave. Hopefully this fixes it.

Yes THANK YOU MEAN MAX for an awesome thread just want to add to the database of problematic clutch issues, might help someone else in future. Your post have helped me numerous times.
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