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Unread 02-02-2009, 07:35 AM   #1
thejones101
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Castrol Edge vs Amsoil

Just wanted to get some opinions from those who know about the stock groups and all the technical stuff. Also question...I have about 130,000 miles. Can I make the switch? I called Jeep and they said that I shouldn't because synthetic is a thinner oil...but they could saying anything (especially when it comes to prolonging engine life).

thanks

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Unread 02-02-2009, 08:08 AM   #2
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This will be fun!
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Unread 02-02-2009, 08:09 AM   #3
USMC_JeepGuy
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From what research I have done, the reason I believe they would say to not go synthetic/thinner is that there is a higher probability of the thinner oil bypassing your older worn seals and such. The synthetic is also likely to have more cleaning agents in it than conventional which can break down the sludges that are both helping to seal your older junk but also causing extra friction. As far as protection goes however, it shouldn't hurt at all and may help prolong the motor providing you don't break down the seals and wind up leaking it all over your driveway..... Do you have any leaks now? Even minor? If no then I might consider it but again bear in mind that it may create some where there were none; if yes I wouldn't do it. Now on the other hand, if you were to replace all your seals etc...., I'd say go for it.


Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke.....no wait that's my Jeep.

Last edited by USMC_JeepGuy; 02-02-2009 at 08:11 AM.. Reason: Disclaimer
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Unread 02-02-2009, 10:52 AM   #4
notmyj
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First thin to keep in mind, synthetic oil is not "thinner". When one uses term "thinner" it is usually applied to meaning a thinner viscosity. A 10w30 conventional will still flow like a 10w30 synthetic in normal temp ranges. Synthetic oil is "smaller" on a molecular level, this is part of what makes people believe that syn oil causes leaks. It just makes it out of the leaks that are already there, a bit more rapidly than the conventional oil.

Should you switch to Syn? Yes. I have never seen a motor blow up cause someone switched.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 10:55 AM   #5
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Very simply, the Castrol "EDGE" has been introduced to compete with Mobil's "Extended Performance" series of oils. M1 EP is making good money for EXXoN/Mobil and Castrol wants to offer an extended drain product so that they don't "miss the boat". Extended drain intervals are very important to money conscious consumers, especially right now. Amsoil outperforms both of them, leading the way in both extending drains and using PAO basestocks. Both M1 "EP" & the "edge" oils say the following about themselves:

First Mobil... Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn System, contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1. (1)

Then Castrol... Castrol EDGE is made from a proprietary combination of base oils, which includes PAO. (2)

Both of these oil are using better base stocks to create a better, longer lasting oil. The PAO (Poly-Alpha-Olefin) is a high quality base stock, known commonly as Group IV. Mobil has a fancy name for their PAOs, they call it "SuperSyn".

What do we learn from these two statements and the fact that both companies are recognizing the need for an oil that can be used in an extended drain situation? That PAO basestocks are recognized as having superior charicteristics, by both major companies, and that extended drain intervals are important and moving toward the forefront in the industry.

As far as how Amsoil fits in to this, They use 100% PAO oils and have been using them for over 3 decades. They have also endorsed and encouraged extended drain intervals since 1972. Simply put Castrol is trying to regain market share that they are losing to Amsoil & Mobil1. If there was no place for it, they wouldn't be spending that kind of $$ for a superbowl ad full of monkeys!
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Unread 02-02-2009, 11:56 AM   #6
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I won't give you the tech stuff, but I can give you a first hand experience. My Jeep has 100,000 on it and I made the switch to Mobil 1 after reading all about it. I figured I would take a shot and see what happens. Well, people were half right. After the second oil change, she started to leak, but VERY minor. I am 1,000 mile in since my last change and even though she is leaking slightly, I haven't had to add any more.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 12:10 PM   #7
idaholtby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Around View Post
This will be fun!



Always a fun topic. Myself... I am just waiting for the rebuild to break in before switching to synthetic. Suppose that topic will be addressed shortly here as well.

Last edited by idaholtby; 02-02-2009 at 12:31 PM..
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Unread 02-02-2009, 01:40 PM   #8
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i posted this in another thread . .....

as for leaks i found this in popular mechanics:

A: Early synthetics got a bad reputation for leaking. This was because, despite the claims of the oil manufacturers, the seal-swell characteristics of the new synthetics were different from those of the mineral oils they replaced. If the seal-swell rate was lower, the seals shrank and oil leaked from crankshaft seals and rocker cover seals. If the rate was higher, the seals swelled a little extra and the engine was tight. Then if the owner changed back to mineral oil, or added a quart when no synthetic was to be had, things got really bad. The crank seals had become worn, in their turgid state, and then relaxed. The valve cover seals were compressed when swelled, and when the different oil was added, everything leaked like, well, an old English sports car.

Fortunately, the situation has improved; you should have no problem switching back and forth. Adding a quart of mineral oil to a crankcase full of synthetic will be fine. Read the fine print — a lot of the "synthetics" on the market are blends containing a substantial proportion of mineral oil.

i have put synthetic in all my cars and havnt had a problem.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 08:34 PM   #9
thejones101
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Nice...I am going to to go it. Thanks for the replies.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 09:53 PM   #10
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When you get it let us know what you pay per quart please. I am curious.
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Unread 02-19-2009, 02:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ridin' Around View Post
When you get it let us know what you pay per quart please. I am curious.

It was $26 for a 5 qt bottle at walmart yesterday
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Unread 02-19-2009, 09:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsquat View Post
i posted this in another thread . .....

as for leaks i found this in popular mechanics:

A: Early synthetics got a bad reputation for leaking. This was because, despite the claims of the oil manufacturers, the seal-swell characteristics of the new synthetics were different from those of the mineral oils they replaced. If the seal-swell rate was lower, the seals shrank and oil leaked from crankshaft seals and rocker cover seals. If the rate was higher, the seals swelled a little extra and the engine was tight. Then if the owner changed back to mineral oil, or added a quart when no synthetic was to be had, things got really bad. The crank seals had become worn, in their turgid state, and then relaxed. The valve cover seals were compressed when swelled, and when the different oil was added, everything leaked like, well, an old English sports car.

Fortunately, the situation has improved; you should have no problem switching back and forth. Adding a quart of mineral oil to a crankcase full of synthetic will be fine. Read the fine print a lot of the "synthetics" on the market are blends containing a substantial proportion of mineral oil.

i have put synthetic in all my cars and havnt had a problem.
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This is not totally true. As a former fuels and lubes engineer for one of the big three I know a bit more about oils then the typical person.

Without going into a big long discussion. An engine that was raised on dino oil should stay with dino oil. However an engine that began life on syn. CAN switch to dino. But preferably not back and forth.

Detergents are part of the reason as are the additives that make up the oils themselves. Due to base stock a dino oil will use a different additive for seal swell then a syn. Take or change that additive and the seal itself becomes compromised.

Know what one of the main ingredients in the high mileage oils ? Additional seal swell additives. Aimed primarily at valve stem seals.

Do not think just because it says syn it is a better oil. Not always true.
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Unread 01-02-2010, 10:39 AM   #13
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I know I have put AMSOIL in cars with over 150k that have ran on penzoil their entire lives and they did just fine. About 5k after switching to AMSOIL we DID find a leak on the valve cover of the vehicle, but that's a good thing isn't it? Yes if there is a slow leak that might be unnoticeable now it may become something that is easier to find...allowing you to fix it before it becomes a bigger problem. I really don't think this will apply to valve seals etc, we are talking about different materials.

EDIT: Sorry for reviving an old thread.
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Unread 01-02-2010, 11:18 AM   #14
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well now that its been revived i might as well chime in. I switched to mobile1 about 5k miles ago on a 135xxx mi 4.0 and have had no issues with leaking at all. I switched this fall when it was around 60 and it is currently 16 outside and i still have had no leaking issues. Synths are more consistent oils and cause wear at an even and predictable rate therefore are more reliable than dino IMHO. I believe its worth the extra few bucks a quart for the synth but with a high mileage engine i guess it may just be the placebo effect. Just make the switch if anything it will just give piece of mind.
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Unread 01-02-2010, 12:31 PM   #15
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What about a rebuilt motor? Any preference for the break in period? And then once it is past the break in period?
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