[YJMonster]

IMHO i love my carb and I find it funner than toying with fuel injection.
Having said that i have had both the 4.0 efi and the 4,2 carb and they are
both great. there is no doubt that i found the fi motor easier to deal with and
better fuel economy. You really have to decide whatyou want, search around and stay aware that the stock carb system on the jeeps is not that great
but there are plenty of tips to help make it run better. If you want a reliable
daily driver you dont have to put as much work into i would say go with efi
but if you are like me and like tinkering with your jeep the carb may be better.

[Karma]

Originally Posted by yoda604

1957 belair is a mechanical FI. That's what makes it good and non relevant to this debate.

HI,
Ah, this is about electronic FI only? That rule had not been previously stated. You have revealed your fundamental bias. I talked about a concept and you are talking about an implementation. From my view, electronic FI is far better than the mechanical versions.

In truth the Chevy FI system was very crude. Yes it was mechanical and had many limitations because of this. So, are you are arguing against electronics and computers in general? If so, you will never prove your point because electronic systems are far, far, far more reliable than equivalent mechanical systems. In fact, the complexity of equivalent mechanical systems increases so rapidly that the designs are not possible. So, I guess you would be in favor of mechanical FI if the industry decided to go in that direction. Well, they won't for a lot of very good reasons.

Sparky

[moonshinefuel]

Carburetor vs fuel injection vs propane injection.
Propane injection ftw. /thread.

[Old4X]

Originally Posted by fitbmxseries1

any mods need to be done to the gastank for FI? I have a carbed 318 and was thinking of going FI when the funds arrive.

Not absolutely necessary. There is an in line fuel pump made just for situations like yours. It produces the proper volume and pressure for (electronic) FI systems.

I am thinking of putting one of these as a backup on my wife's car, as she had 2 fuel pumps crap out on her in a 3 month period. Dropping the tank ceases to be fun after the first experience.

[yoda604]

Originally Posted by Karma

HI,
Ah, this is about electronic FI only? That rule had not been previously stated. You have revealed your fundamental bias. I talked about a concept and you are talking about an implementation. From my view, electronic FI is far better than the mechanical versions.

In truth the Chevy FI system was very crude. Yes it was mechanical and had many limitations because of this. So, are you are arguing against electronics and computers in general? If so, you will never prove your point because electronic systems are far, far, far more reliable than equivalent mechanical systems. In fact, the complexity of equivalent mechanical systems increases so rapidly that the designs are not possible. So, I guess you would be in favor of mechanical FI if the industry decided to go in that direction. Well, they won't for a lot of very good reasons.

Sparky

I would like to direct you back to post #39 where I clearly state Electronic Fuel Injection.(just being an ***)

Generally I'm not a big fan of computer controlled vehicles, grew up with muscle cars in a world where your only problems are fuel or fire. I used to own a 2009 Rubicon JK which was an awesome enough Jeep, but I wouldn't trade my YJ for the life of me. There's something about looking under the hood and seeing pretty much a bare engine with some mud and grease all over it and an exposed valve cover, it makes me feel all warm and soft inside.

[Karma]

Originally Posted by yoda604

I would like to direct you back to post #39 where I clearly state Electronic Fuel Injection.(just being an ***)

Generally I'm not a big fan of computer controlled vehicles, grew up with muscle cars in a world where your only problems are fuel or fire. I used to own a 2009 Rubicon JK which was an awesome enough Jeep, but I wouldn't trade my YJ for the life of me. There's something about looking under the hood and seeing pretty much a bare engine with some mud and grease all over it and an exposed valve cover, it makes me feel all warm and soft inside.

HI,
Well, we agree on something. Like you I would not trade my YJ for the modern computer controlled Jeep either. Our YJ's are vehicles that we can actually WORK on. Access is easy, the technology is not dependant on a computer chip over which we have little control, and parts and modifications are relatively inexpensive. I like the feel of grease on my hands. I like the fact that the concepts in my mind can translate to specific mechanical ideas and results. I like doing the work myself. That's much harder with the modern Jeep. So, as a hobby vehicle, the YJ wins my vote.

However, I think FI really is the superior idea and I would not trade back to a carb. And you can believe that I am quite a good carb mechanic. After all, I lived and worked with them for a lot of years.

In the future, when the folks of that time look back to this early era of computer based vehicles and make their judgments, I think they will say that the very best vehicles started to be made during the 2000 period. And they will dismiss the YJ as an antique. And, I think, they will be right. However, we must speculate about how much actual work the future Jeepers do on their vehicles. Probably not much-because they can't. What fun is that?

Will anybody disagree with me when I say that the Rubicon series is not just good, they are great! For the person who does not like to get their hands dirty or does not have the mechanical ability or interest to modify vehicles, the Rubicon is a God send. It is certainly the best Jeep ever produced. Out of the box it is right there with the best of the Land Rovers, Mercedes and Toyota's. That's saying a lot. Kudos to Jeep for seeing a market and then producing a product that totally fills it. Rubicon's are already classics. And I don't want one. Why? Because I like to get my hands dirty.

Sparky

[Dryseals]

Just to chime in, 1 in 100 people may understand how a carb truly works, 1 in 1000 on the fuel injection. The key is to truely understand the load/fuel needs of an engine.

I'm pretty much a carb expert and not so shabby on FI. While many say a carb is easier to tune, I say bull. FI is far easier to tune, but you have to learn how the system works. The same pricipals that work on a carb are the same on FI, but FI gives you far more control and the ability to tweak in places you can't with a normal carb.

Given choices, there no instance I can fathom where a carb would be superior to FI, none and any one that cares to challenge that point is welcome to do so, trust me, you won't win.

The only thing a carb has over FI is initial cost. I can buy a dirt cheap carb and make it work.

But if I understand how the FI works, then I can install an FI system cheap too.

You can take an early system like the GM systems which are batch fired and adapt them to anything. Very simple systems and you can find them everywhere. If you have extra cash laying around you can install a Wolf or Haltech. But even the Holley's, Accel's and Edelbrock are easy to adapt.

Having modded carbs since I was 14 and FI since the mid 80's, I'd go FI any day.

If a person really wants a carb, then they probably don't understand FI and they probably doen't have a clue on carbs either. Otherwise they would know that each one of those tiny holes and slots in the carb serve a function thats replicated in the FI unit. Difference is there's no holes and slots to gum up in the FI brains.

[Krochus]

Well said dryseals! a lot of the carb Luddites make the incorrect assumption that folks like us are just like them in that we're really just ignorant of the other system and thats why we're so down on carbs. Well like you I started on carbs before I could drive with holleys to qjets from webers to thermoquads, but I've also retrofitted GM TBI EFI systems to older vehicles and have even wrenched on the primitive Bosch Jetronic system old Zcars. I don't haTE carbs because I'm ignorant of their workings and limitations I hate em because I'm not

If I found myself in possession of another carbed vehicle it would get swapped to EFI at the first opportunity


Oh and for you carb guys citing a the potential for EFI fuel pump failure, it happens with carbs too only there's a good chance that in the process your crankcase will get pumped full of gasoline in the process. So even if you have a coffee can and hose with ya you're still quite stranded

[Dryseals]

Originally Posted by Krochus

Well said dryseals! a lot of the carb Luddites make the incorrect assumption that folks like us are just like them in that we're really just ignorant of the other system and thats why we're so down on carbs. Well like you I started on carbs before I could drive with holleys to qjets from webers to thermoquads, but I've also retrofitted GM TBI EFI systems to older vehicles and have even wrenched on the primitive Bosch Jetronic system old Zcars. I don't haTE carbs because I'm ignorant of their workings and limitations I hate em because I'm not

If I found myself in possession of another carbed vehicle it would get swapped to EFI at the first opportunity


Oh and for you carb guys citing a the potential for EFI fuel pump failure, it happens with carbs too only there's a good chance that in the process your crankcase will get pumped full of gasoline in the process. So even if you have a coffee can and hose with ya you're still quite stranded

I gave my nephew a Pontiac 63 model factory tri carb setup for his 63 Catalina station wagon. Along with a long tailshaft muncie 4 speed. It looks great under the hood, he loves it. It's purely for looks and nostalgia, runs good, but it's a week end road boat. Never thought I would get rid of it, but it found a good home.

[fitbmxseries1]

Originally Posted by Old4X

Not absolutely necessary. There is an in line fuel pump made just for situations like yours. It produces the proper volume and pressure for (electronic) FI systems.

I am thinking of putting one of these as a backup on my wife's car, as she had 2 fuel pumps crap out on her in a 3 month period. Dropping the tank ceases to be fun after the first experience.

its not too hard to drop the tank on the YJ but an inline pump would be alot easier to deal with. Now i need to just find a Grand Cherokee with the 5.9 and just swap the motor and wiring in. Just toss the 318 into the carbed out dated pile.

[remmons]

When I picked up the Basket Case, the P/O/ had already begun the process of converting it over to a 4.0L injected setup. I already have a carbed AMC 304 V8 and a Chevy 350 V8 (although I do also have a Holley ProJection system stored away in storage), and a TH400 for both engines, plus I had a D20 transfer case with the proper adapter to mount onto both. I instead chose the path with more complication, but with longevity. To make things a little more complicated, I opted to drop in an AW4 4-sp auto into the mix. I could have went with anything that I wish, but in the long run, I feel that this combo will have a lasting impression, durability, longevity and efficiency.

I feel that most people fear fuel injection, as that I also have ten or so years ago. But after spending some time behind the wheel and under the hood of both carbed and injected vehicles, my vote will still have to sway for the injected units. Of course, with the simplicity of a carb, it can be mounted in just a couple of hours as to where the injection system takes hours, if not days to complete the installation. But in the end, the fuel injection will provide you with (at most times) better reliability and fuel efficiency.

[Alabamaranger]

Originally Posted by Dryseals

I gave my nephew a Pontiac 63 model factory tri carb setup for his 63 Catalina station wagon. Along with a long tailshaft muncie 4 speed. It looks great under the hood, he loves it. It's purely for looks and nostalgia, runs good, but it's a week end road boat. Never thought I would get rid of it, but it found a good home.

Wonder how you would FI a tri carb motor to beat the performance and fuel economy of that setup? Since the rear and front carbs do not come in until you get a heavy foot. I guess you could program the computer to increase gas flow to simulate the extra carbs.


I like FI but have to stick with a 2150 Motorcraft for offroading. At least it does not need a computer or a dozen sensors to make it run. When one of them goes bad, you are on foot. I like simple stuff, carb fuel pump, filter.

Looks like a carb on this bad boy:

http://www.octanemedia.com/event-coverage/video-crusher-ridge-rock-racing/

[Krochus]

Originally Posted by Alabamaranger

Wonder how you would FI a tri carb motor to beat the performance and fuel economy of that setup? Since the rear and front carbs do not come in until you get a heavy foot. I guess you could program the computer to increase gas flow to simulate the extra carbs.
you'd have the dumbest most worthless EFI system in the world if it didn't enrich the fuel flow as airflow and load demands on the engine increased


I like FI but have to stick with a 2150 Motorcraft for offroading. At least it does not need a computer or a dozen sensors to make it run. When one of them goes bad, you are on foot. I like simple stuff, carb fuel pump, filter.
ever hear of limp home mode? when most efi systems lose a sensor they'll go into a preprogrammed fuel map mode to continue running till they can be serviced. I know for a fact that on a GM TBI based system you can unplug every sensor and the engine will still start and run (poorly) purely based on the distributor signal

Looks like a carb on this bad boy:
what makes you say that? just cause the air filter is round?

Video – Crusher Ridge Rock Racing | Octane Media

This post reflects a complete lack of understanding as to how EFI works which seems to be the trend amongst the pro carb posters

[MLJeeper]

Originally Posted by Alabamaranger

Wonder how you would FI a tri carb motor to beat the performance and fuel economy of that setup? Since the rear and front carbs do not come in until you get a heavy foot. I guess you could program the computer to increase gas flow to simulate the extra carbs.

]

Actually they do make such a beast. But its setup to use their custom bottom half intake.

[meatlord]

There is a reason that carbs are antique, outdated technology. I have never been stranded on a trail with my FI, just as stated above there is alot of ignorance when it comes to FI, and limp mode makes it nearly impossible to leave you stranded. I was hit head on at a combined speed of 75 mph tossed thru the air and landed on my side, all the while engine was still running without missing a beat. Properly maintained FI will rarely give you any issues. lets see a carb run on its side(or upside down for that matter)