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Unread 01-05-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
Group_er
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1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria BC
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Cant Get Good Pedal WITH NEW WILWOOD MASTER!

Can anybody give me a hand with bleeding my brakes?

The entire system new. EVERYTHING. It has 2500 km on the whole system.
(The brakes were great for the first 2500k of there life)
(Im running chev 1/2ton disks up front, and lincoln mark4 rear disks.)

Last month my pedal started to get soft. I was told it was a internal leak in the master. So I bought a wilwood master, trying to avoid this sort of thing. =)
The master I was running was a one inch bore, so I bought a wilwood one inch bore.


So I just installed the wilwood brake master, bench bled it, and threw it on. I cracked the lines going to the master, bled them, cracked/Bled the lines going into the factory metering valve. I pulled over 8OZ of fluid from each corner starting with the farthest from the master. (the rear line is "T"ed right in the middle, so either rear caliper is farthest away.

What is happening is, the pedal is still soft, spungy, and goes down about 75% of the way and kinda sorta comes to a hard point. But if you then push harder after this hard point, you feel a click/pop the pedal continues to fall to the floor, and the brake light on the dash comes on (CJ dash -but makes no difference)
When you release the pedal, when it comes up and reaches this "hard point" and passes it, the light goes out.
When going for a test drive, the brakes are very weak, until you hit this "hard spot" near the bottom of the pedal and you feel a click and the rear brakes lock up.

WTF is causing this?
Is it possible theres air in my rear calipers causing this?

JUST SO YOU KNOW.... when installing this new master, I had to redo one of the "circle" lines going from the master to the metering valve. So it was bone dry for the initial bleeding. EDIT:! THIS WAS THE LINE FOR THE FRONT BRAKES!
AND when the old master was off, I rerouted my brake booster vac lines.
But this cant possible be causing my problum.
PLEASE HELP ME GUYS! IM GOING TO CRY!
Ive been bleeding for 6 1/2 hours!!


Last edited by Group_er; 01-05-2010 at 08:46 PM..
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Unread 01-05-2010, 08:44 PM   #2
SeanB95YJ
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1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Schenectady, New York
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usually your FRONT brakes will grab first (and hardest)... you're getting spongy pedal with weak braking power, then a hard spot, then sudden release and the REAR brakes lock (as in skid the tires?)

sounds to me like your problem is in the FRONT circuit.... either a large air pocket you didn't bleed out, or possibly some sort of actual blockage in a line for the front circuit.

Good luck.
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 01-05-2010, 08:48 PM   #3
Group_er
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanB95YJ View Post
usually your FRONT brakes will grab first (and hardest)... you're getting spongy pedal with weak braking power, then a hard spot, then sudden release and the REAR brakes lock (as in skid the tires?)

sounds to me like your problem is in the FRONT circuit.... either a large air pocket you didn't bleed out, or possibly some sort of actual blockage in a line for the front circuit.

Good luck.
YES! Thank you. I had come to the same conclusion!
I forgot to mention (but have now edited my first post) the fact that, that one new line I had to make, was for the front brakes!
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Unread 01-05-2010, 09:23 PM   #4
dodger889
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Do what they call a reverse bleed pushing fluid in at the bleeding points back towards the master cylinder. That should get rid of all the air.

How are your soft lines in your brake system?
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A 89 yj with a 4.0 aw4 sye out of an 92xj. Now the hard part is done time to get it up in the air just a bit. Working on 8.8 with 3.73 and lsd for the rear. and new D30 hp with 3.73 .
For those who have not figured this out I'm old school but can handle the new too.
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im just cheap, and cheap makes you creative.
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Unread 01-05-2010, 09:33 PM   #5
Group_er
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ok, great, Ill try anything..... But how do I do that?
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Unread 01-05-2010, 10:17 PM   #6
Group_er
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Anyone!?
Any Ideas!?
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Unread 01-06-2010, 07:48 AM   #7
dodger889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Group_er View Post
ok, great, Ill try anything..... But how do I do that?
There is a kit that does that. You fill the container with brake fluid and pressure it up.
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A 89 yj with a 4.0 aw4 sye out of an 92xj. Now the hard part is done time to get it up in the air just a bit. Working on 8.8 with 3.73 and lsd for the rear. and new D30 hp with 3.73 .
For those who have not figured this out I'm old school but can handle the new too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsquat View Post
im just cheap, and cheap makes you creative.
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Unread 01-06-2010, 08:28 AM   #8
fyrdriver
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I dont know about the reverse bleeding thing, but I have always had great luck with a pressure bleeder. I have been able to get the air out of some difficult systems that otherwise had no luck with pumping the brake style of bleeding. Well worth the price.
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Unread 01-06-2010, 09:14 AM   #9
Group_er
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Originally Posted by fyrdriver View Post
I dont know about the reverse bleeding thing, but I have always had great luck with a pressure bleeder. I have been able to get the air out of some difficult systems that otherwise had no luck with pumping the brake style of bleeding. Well worth the price.
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thanks for the link, I checked out the link, But didn't see any adapter for wilwood masters.... But thanks anyway!

If theres no other solid suggestions, Im going to have to take it into a shop this morning.... =(
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Unread 01-06-2010, 09:42 AM   #10
fyrdriver
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Wasn't sure what style of master you have. Is it single chamber, dual, remote, etc...
The reason being some of their adapters could work. They might know if you called them.
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Unread 01-06-2010, 09:47 AM   #11
Group_er
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Right, This is the master here:
260-8555-BK
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/Master...8555-BK-lg.jpg
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Unread 01-06-2010, 10:16 AM   #12
fyrdriver
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Well in looking at the picture the standard GM adapter should work. Its just a large flat rubber seal with two small holes in it for the fluid to pass to each chamber. I have used it on GM and Ford applications.

Just outta curiousity did your brakes do this before and after the new master? What proportioning valve are you using?
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Unread 01-06-2010, 11:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrdriver View Post
Well in looking at the picture the standard GM adapter should work. Its just a large flat rubber seal with two small holes in it for the fluid to pass to each chamber. I have used it on GM and Ford applications.

Just outta curiousity did your brakes do this before and after the new master? What proportioning valve are you using?
Im using a factory metering valve right below the master, and a adjustable valve 1/2 way down the line, to the back brakes.
It did not do this before.

Unfortunately I just got back from taking the jeep to the shop.
Ill have to wait and see what they say. I will Keep you posted.
Thanks for the help!
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