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Unread 03-05-2015, 11:46 AM   #1
RockSalt
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Calling the Gear & Axle experts

So I pulled my HP Dana 30 apart to replace the inner seal by the carrier and noticed the pinion has some lateral play (about 1/8") so I figured well might as well replace the pinion bearings and seal as well since it was leaking to (probably as a result of the lateral play)


Long story short I have a few questions. . .


Question 1) I carefully punched out the races and accounted for all parts but I noticed afterwards I don't seem to have any pinion depth shims only the baffle? I do have the shims for pinion bearing pre-load (HP30 uses shims instead of a crush sleeve) but no depth shims which should have been between the baffle and inner race. . . the baffle measures 0.020", the pre-load shims measure 0.005", 0.030", 0.030" and the pinion is marked +0. Does this seem right or did I lose the shims somehow?











Question 2) The Dana tech sheets specify a 7/16 Grade 8 bolt for the carrier bearing caps but the factory ones I took out are marked as Grade 5 and appear to have been treated or tempered in some way. Should I used a standard Grade 8 bolt or Re-use the old ones? Add some LocTite? Go to the dealer?





Question 3) My reading had lead me to believe that the carrier would need to be pried out or I'd need a case spreader but it just sort of plopped out after a light pull. Would this indicate the carrier bearings are bad as well? They have some light striations but no scratches or anything you can feel, they also slide as smooth as butter in the races.







I'm going to check the backlash and run a pattern once it's back together but I wanted to check ahead of time as well



Thanks!

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Unread 03-05-2015, 01:03 PM   #2
Anticanman
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I thought it used the crush sleeve...
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Unread 03-05-2015, 01:29 PM   #3
jeepster93
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I think that because your carrier basically fell out, you had no preload, you need new bearings and crush sleeve. You gotta spread(or at least push real hard). without that step, the correct preload won't stay set.
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Unread 03-05-2015, 01:29 PM   #4
jserna
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For the carrier bearings use a bearing puller. You can rent from a auto parts store. If not take it to a shop and have them remove it. Don't use pry bars to remove them. You are correct, the carrier should not be that loose. You are this far in to the project, you might want to consider a limited slip or locker, since you have the carrier out.
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Unread 03-05-2015, 02:26 PM   #5
Partsmke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSalt View Post
So I pulled my HP Dana 30 apart to replace the inner seal by the carrier and noticed the pinion has some lateral play (about 1/8") so I figured well might as well replace the pinion bearings and seal as well since it was leaking to (probably as a result of the lateral play)


Long story short I have a few questions. . .


Question 1) I carefully punched out the races and accounted for all parts but I noticed afterwards I don't seem to have any pinion depth shims only the baffle? I do have the shims for pinion bearing pre-load (HP30 uses shims instead of a crush sleeve) but no depth shims which should have been between the baffle and inner race. . . the baffle measures 0.020", the pre-load shims measure 0.005", 0.030", 0.030" and the pinion is marked +0. Does this seem right or did I lose the shims somehow?











Question 2) The Dana tech sheets specify a 7/16 Grade 8 bolt for the carrier bearing caps but the factory ones I took out are marked as Grade 5 and appear to have been treated or tempered in some way. Should I used a standard Grade 8 bolt or Re-use the old ones? Add some LocTite? Go to the dealer?





Question 3) My reading had lead me to believe that the carrier would need to be pried out or I'd need a case spreader but it just sort of plopped out after a light pull. Would this indicate the carrier bearings are bad as well? They have some light striations but no scratches or anything you can feel, they also slide as smooth as butter in the races.







I'm going to check the backlash and run a pattern once it's back together but I wanted to check ahead of time as well



Thanks!
Since you haven't removed the slinger behind the bearing you don't know if they may have been a shim installed along with the slinger, you have removed only the baffle. The slinger also has to be measured to know the actually shim thickness. You are lucky your model 30 doesn't use a crush sleeve that is what the pinon bearing shims are used for - setting the preload on the pinion bearings.
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Unread 03-06-2015, 02:23 PM   #6
RockSalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster93 View Post
I think that because your carrier basically fell out, you had no preload, you need new bearings and crush sleeve. You gotta spread(or at least push real hard). without that step, the correct preload won't stay set.
That's pretty much what I figured, no crush sleeve on this axle though it's a High Pinion, only the Low Pinion 30's use crush sleeves


Quote:
Originally Posted by jserna View Post
For the carrier bearings use a bearing puller. You can rent from a auto parts store. If not take it to a shop and have them remove it. Don't use pry bars to remove them. You are correct, the carrier should not be that loose. You are this far in to the project, you might want to consider a limited slip or locker, since you have the carrier out.
I have a bearing puller and the bearing pictured is the new one which I have already pressed on. Unforunately no money for a selectable locker and I don't like the "lunch box" style


Quote:
Originally Posted by Partsmke View Post
Since you haven't removed the slinger behind the bearing you don't know if they may have been a shim installed along with the slinger, you have removed only the baffle. The slinger also has to be measured to know the actually shim thickness. You are lucky your model 30 doesn't use a crush sleeve that is what the pinon bearing shims are used for - setting the preload on the pinion bearings.
Correct pinion bearing pre-load on this axle is with shims and should stay the same. However it's the depth shims I'm worried about on an HP axle they shoud be behind the inner race not between the slinger and pinion as with an LP axle. I've already pressed the inner pinion bearing off / on
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Unread 03-06-2015, 10:18 PM   #7
c5wagner
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Okay, a few things to clarify for people who are unfamiliar with dana gears. Since the pinion is marked +0, and there where no depth shims to begin with, you don't have to worry about pinion depth shims. The slinger should be all that is needed and the slinger is matched to the housing to use the dana pinion depth marking system like the +0. If you go to regear later, and the new pinion is marked -2 for example, then you'd (0)-(-2)=+2 meaning that you'd have to add 2 thousandths of an inch to the shim stack to get pinion depth right. Just get the preload shims right and test for bearing preload with a beam or dial indicated in/lb torque wrench without the carrier installed. And please post pictures of the wear pattern when done.
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Unread 03-07-2015, 07:33 AM   #8
RockSalt
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Thanks c5wagner that's what I was hoping to hear


Two dummy questions now:


1) Is it an issue to use some engine assembly lube or gear oil on the carrier where the bearings are being pressed on for them to go on smoothly?

2) Will I need to run some 75-90 dyno oil for a while with the new bearings or can I use the 75-140 synthetic that I have?
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Unread 03-07-2015, 09:55 AM   #9
c5wagner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSalt View Post
Thanks c5wagner that's what I was hoping to hear

Two dummy questions now:

1) Is it an issue to use some engine assembly lube or gear oil on the carrier where the bearings are being pressed on for them to go on smoothly?

2) Will I need to run some 75-90 dyno oil for a while with the new bearings or can I use the 75-140 synthetic that I have?
1) Use a little bit of gear oil where the bearings press on and wipe it down with a shop rag, you shouldn't be able to see the lube but feel that it's there with your bear hands

2) Couldn't hurt to use whatever gear lube you want. 75-90 just gets you slightly better fuel economy and dissipates heat a little better, thicker gear oil reduces wear, and noise. If you don't have a lsd or locker. Use whatever you feel like.
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Unread 03-08-2015, 08:20 AM   #10
RockSalt
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I hit a bit of a snag, using the stock preload shims I'm hitting 30 in-lbs of preload at just 28 ft-lbs of torque on the pinion nut. I double and triple checked that the races are completely set into the housing and they were installed with a proper race driver. I'm going to measure the thickness of the new bearings but other then that any ideas why this might have happened?
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Unread 03-08-2015, 09:46 AM   #11
RockSalt
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What the hell the original inner bearing is a National? And the outer a Timken? Would Dana have done this or has somebody tried to do a quicky repair and only replaced the outer? The new National outer bearing I have is 0.005" thinner then the Timken that came out.
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Unread 03-08-2015, 01:03 PM   #12
c5wagner
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I think someone tinkered with the axle before. Just add .010 to the preload shim stack and try again

Oops, sorry. Meant; just keep adding .001 and try again
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Unread 03-09-2015, 11:07 AM   #13
Partsmke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSalt View Post
What the hell the original inner bearing is a National? And the outer a Timken? Would Dana have done this or has somebody tried to do a quicky repair and only replaced the outer? The new National outer bearing I have is 0.005" thinner then the Timken that came out.
I don't think you have a National marked bearing, seal yes, bearing no. What are the numbers stamped into the bearing cup and on the edge of the bearing where it slides onto the pinion?

When you tighten the nut that presses the yoke against the shims and you have too much preload, add a shim, start with .002", if you still have too much preload add another shim on the pinion stem in between the bearings, keep track of them. You should be able to seat the nut at full torque of the nut. Do not use the old nut once you get the nut torqued and you preload checked, back it off and use a new nut.
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Unread 03-09-2015, 12:45 PM   #14
RockSalt
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Origional bearings were all National stamped with NTN except for the outer pinion bearing which was a Timken. The side profile of the pinion laying on a table was taken from the internet and is not my actual pinion. Just waiting on the shims I ordered to try preload again.
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Unread 03-10-2015, 11:58 AM   #15
Partsmke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSalt View Post
Origional bearings were all National stamped with NTN except for the outer pinion bearing which was a Timken. The side profile of the pinion laying on a table was taken from the internet and is not my actual pinion. Just waiting on the shims I ordered to try preload again.
NTN is not National, it is a Japanese company that has a reputation of building quality bearings, here is the history.
http://www.ntnamericas.com/en/about-...porate-history
National is a builder of seals and is an American company.
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