Broken Temp Sensor - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 15 Old 06-25-2013, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Broken Temp Sensor

Well, here I am again. Working on my YJ since installing the replacement engine. While I was installing the engine, I broke the sensor off in the top of the head.

I have tried using a "easy out" with no success. The easy out just binds an goes sideways.

Has anyone tried progressively drilling it out with a few different size drill bits?

Looking for suggestions as too how extract the broken end with out damaging the head.

John


John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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post #2 of 15 Old 06-25-2013, 03:33 PM
idaholtby
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That is what I would do if I was in your shoes. Start small and then slowly work your way up with larger bits. If you can keep them centered enough, eventually the remainder will be thin enough that it come right out.
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-25-2013, 08:41 PM
stenyeart
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When I broke mine off, the only type of extractor I could get to work was a spline screw extractor. Here is a link to an example. Order a set because these things are great.

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Spline-S...crew+extractor
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-25-2013, 09:08 PM
packdog
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Left hand drill bit

If you are going to drill it out you might want to get a few sizes of "reverse" drill bits. You might get lucky and have it come right out while drilling it.
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-25-2013, 09:10 PM
idaholtby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packdog View Post
If you are going to drill it out you might want to get a few sizes of "reverse" drill bits. You might get lucky and have it come right out while drilling it.
^^ Good advice
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-26-2013, 05:13 AM
Siva283
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I used left handed easyouts. The ones that look spirial and not like a drill bit. I took one that was one size too big and hammered it in just a little. Then I used an old style manual drill and it came right out. You will want a set of taps too or you will break the new one putting it in. It uses 1/4 npt threads. Run the tap on the threads when you get the old one out. When you put the new one in you will notice a line of thread locker at the top(red iirc) just tighten it down until 2 or 3 of those threads are in and then stop. These sensors are thin brass and break really really easy. I went through 4 of them learning these tricks.

1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

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I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim
Quote:
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. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

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this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-26-2013, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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Hello everyone, thanks for the advice. I plan on digging into this project on Fri. In general it sounds like everyone feels this is a possible DIY repair. In my past, I have never had any luck extracting broken bolts, an have always had to pay a shop to do this.

John

John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-26-2013, 10:52 AM
tdewit
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It also helps if you have a heat source available. I use a plumbers propane bottle to heat the area and this will break the rust on the threads.
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post #9 of 15 Old 06-26-2013, 01:04 PM
Siva283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdewit View Post
It also helps if you have a heat source available. I use a plumbers propane bottle to heat the area and this will break the rust on the threads.
I would be careful using a torch on that area of the engine. Lots of lines in that area that could be melted with a torch.

OP I suck and extracting bolts also but take your time and think logically. Remember this is brass so its soft. Once the top starts to chew up a little and heat up from the extracter it will break the thread locker. It will then spin right out. If I can do it you can do it. Just take your time. Its annoying and a pain but you can do it. Worse case scenario you chew up the thread a little and have to retap it.

1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldso View Post
. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhead View Post
this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-28-2013, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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I got very lucky on my second attempt trying to use the easyout. I was able to extract the broken end. Now the new sensor was installed today an I have allowed the engine to idle enough to see a change in the temp gauge. Now I need to get a trip permit an test by driving the wrangler to temp an see how well the cooling system works.

Thanks everyone for your suggestion an motivation. I was really ready to take it to the shop an spend money I really couldn't afford.

John

John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-29-2013, 07:10 AM
Siva283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFM3 View Post
I got very lucky on my second attempt trying to use the easyout. I was able to extract the broken end. Now the new sensor was installed today an I have allowed the engine to idle enough to see a change in the temp gauge. Now I need to get a trip permit an test by driving the wrangler to temp an see how well the cooling system works.

Thanks everyone for your suggestion an motivation. I was really ready to take it to the shop an spend money I really couldn't afford.

John
Refer to first quote in my Sig. Thats all the jeep requires. Once it has been reached things will start going your way.

1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldso View Post
. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhead View Post
this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.
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post #12 of 15 Old 06-29-2013, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva283 View Post
Refer to first quote in my Sig. Thats all the jeep requires. Once it has been reached things will start going your way.
So true, so true.

So today I drove my jeep for the first time with this Renix engine from a 88 XJ to see how the Temp does. Normally, I sit just a needle thickness above 210. Today, it went up to the mid red line then dropped down to the tic right before the Red line which is 235.

For some reason I recall the Cherokee Renix engine water pump rotating the opposite direction than the YJ H.O. engine water pump. If this is the case, then this would make sense as to why its not cooling the way it should.

Can anyone shed some light on this an the belt routing?

Meanwhile I will be googling to see what I find. My Haynes manual only shows 1 4.0 belt routing for all XJ engines (Renix thru H.O.) an for some reason I thought there was 2 different routings.

John

John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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post #13 of 15 Old 06-30-2013, 05:18 AM
Mark05059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFM3 View Post
So true, so true.

So today I drove my jeep for the first time with this Renix engine from a 88 XJ to see how the Temp does. Normally, I sit just a needle thickness above 210. Today, it went up to the mid red line then dropped down to the tic right before the Red line which is 235.

For some reason I recall the Cherokee Renix engine water pump rotating the opposite direction than the YJ H.O. engine water pump. If this is the case, then this would make sense as to why its not cooling the way it should.

Can anyone shed some light on this an the belt routing?

Meanwhile I will be googling to see what I find. My Haynes manual only shows 1 4.0 belt routing for all XJ engines (Renix thru H.O.) an for some reason I thought there was 2 different routings.

John
Belt routing for a serpentine belt is basically the same on all jeeps.. v belts are different. If you used the pump that was on the XJ motor you swapped in there is less of a chance that its the wrong rotation pump.

If you used an aftermarket temp sender there has been documentation that they read higher on the stock yj gages then the actual temp of the jeep.

1998 ZJ 5.2 Auto

1989 Wrangler Black Bone Stock 2.5l 5spd
/l , [____],
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post #14 of 15 Old 06-30-2013, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark05059 View Post
Belt routing for a serpentine belt is basically the same on all jeeps.. v belts are different. If you used the pump that was on the XJ motor you swapped in there is less of a chance that its the wrong rotation pump.

If you used an aftermarket temp sender there has been documentation that they read higher on the stock yj gages then the actual temp of the jeep.
Thanks for the info. The sensor I broke is the one that came on the Renix engine an I still have the YJ sensor on the old block. I will try swapping that out an see if that reflects in the guage. I did end up buying a sensor from the local auto parts store which is the one giving me the high readings.

Looks like the T-Stat's for both the Renix an the H.O. at 195 degree.

This engine never ran warm in the Cherokee I pulled it from. So I will try the sensor an see if that changes the out come.

John

John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-30-2013, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
JohnFM3
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Ok everyone, I have a dumb question I am almost certain I have the answer too.

Does the temp sensor on the back of the head do anything other than run the gauge?

I swapped the sensor with the old one an drove it this morning, an the temp was more as I would expect. I will be driving it today once its warmer so I can confirm that everything is working the way I would expect. What concerns me is yesterday when the temp jumped all the way in in the 240 range, the engine ran like it was hot. With a bit of a stumble at times. Which makes no sense if the engine was really cooler than the gauge read yesterday.

My only other thought is I have another issue causing a over heating situation. When I cracked the head, I could have messed up the Cat Converter. This engine I put in came from my 88 XJ an I never had any over heating issues with it, even with the Renix cooling system. So I am hesitant to dig into changing the T-Stat or water pump. An the radiator is a new CJ V-8 3 Core Heavy Duty.

I will know more this after noon when I drive it again.

John

John Moore ~ Real Men Still Crawl...
97 XJ (Diablo) 4.0L H.O. w/AW4 4sp Auto Dana 30/Chry 8.75 2.5 inch Flowmaster Exhaust 4 inch Lift w/ 32inch tires & RS5000 Shocks
92 YJ (BOSS) 4.0L H.O. w/AX-15 5sp Manual, 231 TCase, Dana 30/8.8 (3.73) 2.5 inch Flowmaster R.E. 2 inch lift and 2 inch body lift for CJ clip
XJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2634588 YJ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3322306
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