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Unread 08-31-2014, 05:32 PM   #61
GunHo198
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Keep in mind that that the only issue we had installing the thicker radiator was the fact that it being thicker, it moves your fan shroud closer to the fan blades. My son had a body lift and the shroud rubbed the fan blades at the bottom of the shroud. Since the radiator was already mounted, I wasn't going to pull it again and try and lower it. So the easiest fix was to drill new holes into the fan shroud to lower it an extra inch for clearance. My son hasn't hit over 190 in over a month since the larger radiator install. He's quite happy as he now has more confidence in his Jeep.

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Unread 08-31-2014, 05:41 PM   #62
GunHo198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisnvegas
I These Jeeps did not leave the dealership overheating under ANY circumstances. Crawling or not. Problems arose when parts got old and were replaced with aftermarket crap. No one wants to pay the dealership prices and now, many parts are discontinued. I think I got one of the last Mopar fan clutches. The rest are garbage. Many of the threads on this forum are because people have installed questionable quality parts instead of OEM. "I'm having trouble with my fuel pump again" Oh really? If possible stick with Mopar for your engine.
This I agree with to some point. Mopar parts are by far better than your average auto parts store parts. Many of the generic parts store sensors are for a variety of vehicles where as Mopar Jeep sensors are for more specific vehicles and that's why they cost a bit more. But often when you mount an M8274 winch and plate along with bigger tires and gears, the whole dynamic of the engine is going to change a bit. So after market cooling system help may be needed. One of my sones wanted an electric fan in his 05 TJ so he could get better gas milage. But the electric fan couldn't keep up and we had to put the stock fan setup back in. Sometimes you just can't beat the stock setup..... The electric fan had worked fine in my YJ, but I have a different radiator, and no A/C condenser in front of my radiator either...
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Unread 08-31-2014, 09:09 PM   #63
Louie4
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I went to the JY today and found a shroud from some kind of Ford. It was laying on the engine of a van. No blade or motor. I actually picked it up because it looked like the one I needed. I then found the blade intact underneath the next vehicle. Still no motor. Just to be sure everything seemed right I pulled a fan motor from a 3.0L Taurus to check and it did fit. Here is what I found and what I'm replacing. I have full coverage over my radiator and the fan is 2" larger in diameter. I think it may help. I also plan on getting a 16lb radiator cap and some distilled water.
photo-1.jpg

photo-2.jpg

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Unread 08-31-2014, 09:12 PM   #64
GunHo198
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Nice! That's a big fan!
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Unread 08-31-2014, 10:01 PM   #65
Chrisnvegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunHo198 View Post
This I agree with to some point. Mopar parts are by far better than your average auto parts store parts. Many of the generic parts store sensors are for a variety of vehicles where as Mopar Jeep sensors are for more specific vehicles and that's why they cost a bit more. But often when you mount an M8274 winch and plate along with bigger tires and gears, the whole dynamic of the engine is going to change a bit. So after market cooling system help may be needed. One of my sones wanted an electric fan in his 05 TJ so he could get better gas milage. But the electric fan couldn't keep up and we had to put the stock fan setup back in. Sometimes you just can't beat the stock setup..... The electric fan had worked fine in my YJ, but I have a different radiator, and no A/C condenser in front of my radiator either...
Here is an interesting article about Death Valley auto testing.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/ne...s-death-valley

A 2016 Ford Super Duty just burned up there during testing and yes, the body is/was aluminum.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...-to-the-ground

Louie, I think you will be fine with the new shroud. I think your cooling system needs a little bump, not a complete rebuild.

One thing I did a couple years ago:
Sent the original radiator to a shop and had it rebuilt. It was under 90 bucks.
Came back like new.
Replaced the water pump with an OEM Mopar. Found an original Mopar 195 T-stat, got a new fan clutch from the dealer. They say they can't get them anymore. I also took the last 16 lb cap from them.

My point? It's getting tough to keep our stuff all Mopar so we will eventually all be experimenting with aftermarket. I hope the shroud does it.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 08:26 AM   #66
Louie4
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Mounted.
image-1926800523.jpg

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Unread 09-01-2014, 08:49 AM   #67
Delawdude
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Looks good. I'll be making a trip to the yard shortly. What van did you locate the shroud in?
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Unread 09-01-2014, 09:56 AM   #68
Louie4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delawdude
Looks good. I'll be making a trip to the yard shortly. What van did you locate the shroud in?
The shroud was sitting on top of the engine so I can't say for sure. It looked similar to a dodge Caravan but fords version. I also did a good deal of trimming to make it fit. I used some dykes then smoothed the edges with a flap disc and tried to make it even.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 10:17 AM   #69
Delawdude
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Looks good - hopefully it resolves the heat issue.

I have the stock radiator with mechanical fan w/clutch and run just a hair under 210* when cruising around 70 mph - that's spinning about 3200 rpm (4.10 gears, 4.0L with 3 speed auto).

On hot days (temp > 90) I notice the engine temp starts creeping higher when sitting at idle but drops once I start moving or rev the engine. This is probably because I have not reinstalled the fan shroud since doing the body lift.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 01:17 PM   #70
jsawduste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisnvegas View Post
Here is an interesting article about Death Valley auto testing.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/ne...s-death-valley
Just got busted by Chris. I`d rather not recall the number of days and weeks sweating my *** off when doing HWT (Hot Weather Testing) for one of Detroit`s big three.

So I am not going to do a soap box speech. Thing is that the testing encompasses real world testing often ballasted with weight far and beyond what the vehicle is design to haul/tow.

My 4.9 stroker runs at 195 to 210 be it freeway/traffic jam. Factory cooling with the exception of a CSR BRASS/COPPER radiator.

Hanging off the bumper blocking airflow is a winch, lights, couple of mounts and a PS/cooler.

Ditch the electric and do it right. No way in hell are you going to get the air flow those little blades of the electric fan and minimal shroud as shown in the picture.

Sorry but truth hurts and this electric fan is just another internet spawned myth that folks have sucked up to.

When I worked with Ron Davis and CBR radiators they wouldn't even sell me a radiator based on my needs. Their advice ? Go OEM

Not to say electric fans don`t have there place. They do when designed as a package with the entire cooling system taken as a whole.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 01:46 PM   #71
Chrisnvegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
Just got busted by Chris. I`d rather not recall the number of days and weeks sweating my *** off when doing HWT (Hot Weather Testing) for one of Detroit`s big three.

So I am not going to do a soap box speech. Thing is that the testing encompasses real world testing often ballasted with weight far and beyond what the vehicle is design to haul/tow.

My 4.9 stroker runs at 195 to 210 be it freeway/traffic jam. Factory cooling with the exception of a CSR BRASS/COPPER radiator.

Hanging off the bumper blocking airflow is a winch, lights, couple of mounts and a PS/cooler.

Ditch the electric and do it right. No way in hell are you going to get the air flow those little blades of the electric fan and minimal shroud as shown in the picture.

Sorry but truth hurts and this electric fan is just another internet spawned myth that folks have sucked up to.

When I worked with Ron Davis and CBR radiators they wouldn't even sell me a radiator based on my needs. Their advice ? Go OEM

Not to say electric fans don`t have there place. They do when designed as a package with the entire cooling system taken as a whole.
That's why I have kept my cooling system all Mopar.
I see what they do to these vehicles as they leave town early in the morning.
I saw a Jeep (not sure what it was exactly, it was camo'd) it had a u-haul trailer with 3 water tanks strapped to it. WAY over weight. It also had half the grille blocked with a tarp.

That's why I also say they didn't leave the dealership overheating.
It irritates me when people say Jeeps have these "known" faults like the cooling system. When actually, for the first 15 years of life no one bothered to open the radiator cap.
Then they attempt to re-engineer the cooling system which left the factory as a balanced unit able to take on the hottest conditions on the planet.

This might work (barely) for a guy in Northern Minnesota where a hot day is 85.

Louie, good job on the shroud. My bla bla bla is not directed at you, I think your setup will work just fine.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 02:04 PM   #72
jsawduste
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When based in Vegas we often stayed at the Luxour and used the big parking garage behind the hotel for quick/dirty work. Other times it was the Holiday Inn a block over (Federal ?). You know, the place the big strip club burned down a few years back.

Baker hill was another favorite as was downtown Vegas traffic along the Bvld.

Help me out here Chris. Not far from the Blvd. was Horrible Harold's or some goofy name like that for a car wash. Recall one of the test guys hitting it pretty big on the slot machine in the lobby.

IIRC the factory fan is capable of some 4,000 CFM. Of course YMMV and my number could be a bit off but if you look at those 5 large, deeply pitched blades spinning at 5000 RPM then 4,000 CFM doesn't seem to be far off.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 02:36 PM   #73
Chrisnvegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
When based in Vegas we often stayed at the Luxour and used the big parking garage behind the hotel for quick/dirty work. Other times it was the Holiday Inn a block over (Federal ?). You know, the place the big strip club burned down a few years back.

Baker hill was another favorite as was downtown Vegas traffic along the Bvld.

Help me out here Chris. Not far from the Blvd. was Horrible Harold's or some goofy name like that for a car wash. Recall one of the test guys hitting it pretty big on the slot machine in the lobby.

IIRC the factory fan is capable of some 4,000 CFM. Of course YMMV and my number could be a bit off but if you look at those 5 large, deeply pitched blades spinning at 5000 RPM then 4,000 CFM doesn't seem to be far off.
The road (Holiday Inn) is Russell. The strip Joint is now rebuilt (surprise!) and called Crazy Horse.

The name of the car wash is Terrible Herbst. It was owned by the Herbst family who was big into desert racing.
They lost it when the economy took a dive. They somehow managed to hold onto their slot route servicing slots at quicky marts and grocery stores and are clawing their way back.



The stock fan is easily 4000 cfm with the Mopar clutch. It starts to whine at 195+ and at 210 will howl. The aftermarket clutches are not very aggressive.
There is also misinformation out there that these fans do not come on nor are needed at highway speeds. Bull.
The bi-metal thermo spring does not know or care how fast the Jeep is moving. It only reacts to heat.
And despite the seemingly large grille, not as much air blows thru the radiator at speed as one would think. Air follows the path of least resistance and most of the air is going around the grill.
I read an article years ago where during testing, there were low pressure areas outside the jeep (the windshield/cowl area for example) that redirected cooling air from the grille to fill the "void" of air at the base of the windshield.
There were several other areas with low pressure which blocked cooling air from entering the grill at speed.

I think I'm entering a technical area that most people don't like.
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Unread 09-01-2014, 03:12 PM   #74
Drednot
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Too much technical....

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Unread 09-01-2014, 03:26 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
Ditch the electric and do it right. No way in hell are you going to get the air flow those little blades of the electric fan and minimal shroud as shown in the picture.

Sorry but truth hurts and this electric fan is just another internet spawned myth that folks have sucked up to.

Not to say electric fans don`t have there place. They do when designed as a package with the entire cooling system taken as a whole.
I was beginning to think I was the only one who knew the truth.
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