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Unread 03-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #1
lincolnmatthews
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Bds suspension-not completely satisfied

I'll start out by stating that I will be in the minority on this, as they have a good rep. Last year I ordered on there website a 2" lift for my 87 YJ, they recommended the 6" shackle extensions to "clear the military wrap" so I ordered these. At the time I was considering installing myself but changed my mind after they or a local dealer contacted me, so I had it drop shipped to save the frt (a nice program). I had this dealer install it. Never really drove it much last Fall, (was going to replace the BA-10 with the AX15, which has just been done). Never liked the stance of the Jeep, I like them to sit level, (no winch at this point). It sits maybe 1" lower in the front. So I call BDS last week, & talk to the tech guy, he states something like these springs are used in other kits or something like that, & goes on about how they don't encourage selling on there web site, they prefer to go thru there dealer's, well thats all fine, however they have no problem selling the parts & taking one's money!. Anyway he states that I could remove one leaf from the rear & this would help, I'm getting a little hot, as I shouldn't thing that I should have to ^$^ around with this kit to get some of the bugs out. I'm alot smarter now than I was when I ordered it, I originally only wanted a 2" lift & run 31" tires, well now I found out that essentially now I have a 3" lift & could have run 32" tires because of the ext shackles (I know you guys are cracking up at this point). I only wanted a 2" lift because I didn't want to install a SYE joint. Since the AX15 install it seems to be ruff on acceleration & deceleration, I'm told that because I have a 3" lift I need a SYE to get rid of this. Just ordered some shims from BDS to rotate the axle, (again on there site it lists the shims for around $10.00 but doesn't say if this is each or by the pair, so I order 2, which turns out to be 4 so another $10.00 wasted). Must also say that its next to impossible to get thru to there apparently only one guy that can sell something over the phone, I know I'm whining at this point, guess I'm just pissed off, that I didn't end up with what I paid the big bucks to get, (I could have bought a cheaper kit & had the Jeep sit crooked) & now I got a 3" lift & need a SYE to stop the crappy driveability of this rig. Its used a lot on the hwy so I wanted a very smooth rig, it was actually better before the AX15 & 231 installed. I think maybe that the AX15 maybe a tad bit longer, that the BA-10 which would give a steeper angle on the drive line. I also thought that after my unhappiness with there product that they might send out the shims & center bolts free of chg but to no avail, so between the 2 sets of shims & bolts + UPS Blue to try & get it hear for the weekend I'm out another $50.00 bucks!. Ok let me have it, I guess I'm just **^%#$ off about all the bucks spent & not done yet, (I know its a Jeep!) I tried to keep it short, but how can one, with all this *****in going on!

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Unread 03-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #2
Doch80
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I wouldn't say your whining, BDS is not a crappy brand and I'd be pissed too. With that said maybe you should have called to verify the quantity of the shims. BACK in the day when rough country made a 3" lift I had to play with the shims as well to get it driving just right. As far as not sitting level, are you sure the installer put the springs on the correct end... And put everything else on correctly?

Each jeep is different so it might take a little tweeking to get it just right. I'd still be pissed though.
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Unread 03-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #3
NonRubicon
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I would expect good customer service from a company so highly regarded.

It's typical that you get more initial lift (higher than the rated lift) with new springs. They need time to settle in, or need to be deliberately flexed to get them to settle faster. Different factors also come into play such as the load on the vehicle the springs are actually installed on, versus the load on the vehicle the springs were rated on. Usually the advertised lift is the rated lift.

Not sure about the rake (lower front end) being normal or not - someone with the same lift will have to chime in. But it would still be good the make sure the springs are installed correctly. Make sure the shackles were torqued properly - the Jeep should be sitting with it's full weight on the springs before the shackles are tightened. If still there, check the front track bar to make sure the relocation brackets were installed properly. Make sure the sway bar isn't binding. If none of these things apply to you, you can level it out by either putting taller shackles in the front, or shorter shackles in the rear.

Regarding the rough accel/decel - Make sure you have the proper driveline angles and a balanced driveshaft.

Rear shims are only one possible way to adjust the angles. Shims are not a "one size solves all problems" part though - they come in different degrees. Some people need to experiment with different degree shims to find the right pinion angle. Sometimes people need shims and a t-case drop. Every vehicle is different, and some people do find that even with a 2"-3" lift that a SYE setup is the best and sometimes only solution for drive line vibes even with such a small lift. Every Jeep is different. Hence why I recommend at least calculating a SYE/CV drive shaft setup into the cost of any suspension lift, but that is after the fact for your case.

Here's a link to a good reference site if you need more info: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ft/index2.html.

When ever you install a lift, it is better to expect to have to make adjustments to fine tune things, to ready yourself for the possibility.
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Unread 03-01-2013, 04:04 PM   #4
roadyrob
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I have had the 2" lift for about 5 years, it sat level till recently and is now developing a slight rake. what the sales rep told you about needing extended shackles to clear the military rap is true but you don't need 1". I run 5/.8" and clear fine. this could be part of your vibration problem. get an angle finder and check the angle at the transfer case and differential, it should be the same so they are parallel to each other. did your dealer install a transfercase drop? there was one in the kit you bought. like posted re torque the shackle and spring bolts with weight on the springs, 45 lbs is more than enough. also, how many miles on the suspension?
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Unread 03-01-2013, 04:35 PM   #5
lincolnmatthews
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Thanks for the ideas & replies! They did drop the TC 1", which my driveline guy said isn't the best way to deal with a lift because of the angle that this puts on the front driveline. He suggested a SYE of course. Who knows? I'll try retorquing the shackles like suggested with weight on the back to 45lbs. I personally think that BDS doesn't really care about selling these little 2" lifts, they rather sell the larger more elaborate 6" lifts etc for pickups etc, which might explain why they said these springs are used elsewhere??. Sure not impressed with the way they dealt with me on the phone or took care of me as far as fixing the problem. I might also add that I am driving around with about 4-50LB bags of sand in the back to try & lower this thing!! Still not level!! What a pile of crap!!
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Unread 03-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #6
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I'm just curious since I'm not up on the BDS 2" lift. Does the front and rear have the same number of leafs? Frankly, I'm surprised they would tell you to remove a leaf??? That does'nt sound right. I could see a 'slight' rake due to engine size, or hard top vs. not. But sounds like you've got too much.
Also, lowering the shackle torque is fine, but you should have lock nuts when doing this.



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Unread 03-02-2013, 06:32 AM   #7
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I'd call them back and ask if they can trade u a smaller shackle for the rear that is an inch shorter. Swap the shackles out and ur back to level....
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Unread 03-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #8
imstillatwork
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I'm not sure I understand the problem, cam someone sum up?
Product not as described?
Broken?
Or modifying one component of a Jeep lead to needing to modify other components?
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Unread 03-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by imstillatwork View Post
I'm not sure I understand the problem, cam someone sum up?
Product not as described?
Broken?
Or modifying one component of a Jeep lead to needing to modify other components?
I'm with you.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:35 PM   #10
lincolnmatthews
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Basically two problems-1) Front end of Jeep sits about 1" (or less) lower than the rear. Don't like the looks of it, & no real satisfaction from BDS. Problem #2: Did seem to drive ok & smooth with the BA-10 trans. for what little I drove it since the lift was installed last summer. In the last month I had a rblt AX 15 & rblt 231 TC installed, along with new clutch kit etc. SINCE THIS INSTALLATION this is when the drivability issues began. Vibration & roughness when I first let out the clutch, & just overall roughness going down the hwy. & on decel/acel to the point that its a pia to drive & pisses on off! NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED other than my update to trans/tc. I did just have the driveline (rear) ballanced etc, did not improve it. I'M JUST WONDERING if the AX 15 setup could be a little longer which would increase the driveline angles??. OR NOW do I need a SYE because of the trans change, maybe I was just on the verge of needing one with the old drive train. That's why I'm also a little unhappy with BDS because I only wanted a 2" lift but wasn't told when ordering the lift that the 6" shackles would also lift it an additional 1" Either I'm on the verge of needing a SYE joint OR something is wrong with the transmission/tc! Can't understand why before I was getting by without an SYE but now I need one because of this conversion???!!!! Maybe someone can explain this, thank you
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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:44 PM   #11
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The second reason is entirely your fault. It has nothing to do with the suspension or the tires or the hard or soft top. Transmission issues are due to the transmission.

It almost makes me want to discount the first reason with that line of thinking.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
The second reason is entirely your fault. It has nothing to do with the suspension or the tires or the hard or soft top. Transmission issues are due to the transmission.

It almost makes me want to discount the first reason with that line of thinking.
I tend to agree, the trans issues have nothing to do with the OP's suspension, let alone BDS in general.

OP, as for your first complaint about it sitting an inch low in the front, believe it or not this is pretty normal, even with your factory suspension, its called rake and is usually intentionally there, althougth some aftermarket suspensions take it out.

If it really bothers you, put stock length shackles in the rear and leave the longer ones up front, will take out the rake.

No offense, but it sounds like you ordered a kit based off recomendations without doing any research. If you didn't realize 6" long shackles were going to lift the Jeep more then you should have read some more about YJ suspensions. That said, they probably could have told you this over the phone, but probably didn't realize that this was going to be an issue for you.

Good luck with your rig.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:00 PM   #13
roadyrob
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its common knowledge that the 2" BDS lift gives you a little more than 2", most quality lifts do. my lift is 5 years old and still a little more than 2". another thing to consider is you old springs were probably sagging so the new springs seem higher.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
The second reason is entirely your fault. It has nothing to do with the suspension or the tires or the hard or soft top. Transmission issues are due to the transmission.

It almost makes me want to discount the first reason with that line of thinking.
I am with you on this one... was it sitting uneven originally? +/- 1" prior to the lift? If so, the lift may not have addressed the real issue going on...
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Unread 03-04-2013, 02:08 PM   #15
SeanB95YJ
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my thought... you mentioned 6" shackles (which will add 1" lift)... did you get new shackles for both front AND rear or just rear? If I remember correctly when I was buying mine, I thought it said the rear needed longre shackles to clear the mil wrap at the gas tank skid (but it's been a while)... some people might have read into it that they JUST need longer shackles in the rear... which if they do, will end up with more lift in rear than in front.... either go back to stock (4") shackles in rear, or put longer (6") shackles in front to level it out.
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