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Unread 08-07-2008, 07:33 PM   #1
xwildman138x
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AX15 grinding or chattering in neutral hard shift

Hey guys well its a new week and a new problem. This one happened right on the day I was getting ready to order my lift kit. Go figure now I'll be spending money on this problem now. Anyway driving home today the shifting started getting a little weird. The shift wasn't as fluid as it usually is it started feeling more mechanical like I was forcing the stick through the gears. Then a little later the grinding or chattering not sure what it is but with the clutch out in neutral it makes a noise and it sounds painful. push the clutch in and its gone. Now the clutch has to be all the way in for the noise to go away. as soon as the pedal gets to where the clutch would engage full noise/vibration. When you shift into gear it kind of feels like its not taking off smoothly it bounces you back and forth a little when it takes off. After you've managed to force or time it right and your in gear its no problem. The engine seems to studder a little too during this whole operation. Until its in gear then your ok. tranny fluid was a little low but not empty filled that. topped off the transfer case. the clutch is about 20,000 miles old and I always downshift (does this shorten clutch life). Now for the part where I yell "you stupid ahole" or maybe you guys do. I remember when we did the clutch about 3 years ago something happened and for some reason I think when me and my friend were putting the clutch back in we lost the pilot bearing or the kit was missing one something happened and I think we reused the original. (yikes). Now this may be a extremely stupid question but would that pilot bearing going bad cause the problem I am having. Feel free to call me names I certainly deserve it.

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Unread 08-07-2008, 07:37 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by xwildman138x View Post
with the clutch out in neutral it makes a noise and it sounds painful. push the clutch in and its gone.
Sounds like a bad throw-out bearing symptom to me.
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Unread 08-07-2008, 07:48 PM   #3
xwildman138x
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I remember when we put it in, I looked at the throw out bearing and it was plastic and looked like something from the dollar store. I remember holding it saying "what the hell is this could they make it any cheaper?" Also noticed that the line from the clutch master cylinder down to the tranny is completely rusted. doesn't look like I'm loosing fluid but I'm going to get one of them too, just a no brainer. Although I bet that line is pricey. Hard line with bends to a rubber line to a hard line, it was 157 bucks on 4wd.com. Hopefully my parts store can get me a better price than that!
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Unread 08-15-2008, 09:00 PM   #4
xwildman138x
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Got the tranny out clutch looks messed up but my biggest worry is the shaft on the tranny where it rides in the pilot bearing is a little goofed up. we got the pilot bearing out, we had to make a slide hammer to do it but its out. Tomorrow the flywheel is going to the machine shop and I'm going to change the valve cover gasket because there is oil all over the back of the motor the outside of the tranny and inside the bell housing. That can't be good. I'm going to emery cloth the shaft to try and get the sharp edges off any other ideas why that would happen. Does that mean the pilot bearing was bad??
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Unread 08-16-2008, 12:12 AM   #5
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I am uncertain as to what has caused your problem in your post, however, you're describing oil all over the place. It's a good time to change your rear main seal/pan gasket while you have the rest of the drive train out. Of course in the 6 cyl you can do it with tranny in, but it is a bit easier with it out, all your tools are already out, and you're already under there.
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yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
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Unread 08-16-2008, 05:58 AM   #6
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It seems the valve cover is the big problem because I know it leaks and its leaking in the back the most. there is a little opening in the top of the ax15 where I think a sensor goes on newer jeeps, well on mine it had a cover and the cover fell apart. SOO now there is a nice sized opening on the top where all the oil and I'm sure water and everything else could just run inside. I have to make a new cover for it to keep all the stuff out. As for the oil seal I want to do it just to do it, but I have the engine supported because everything else is out, should I move all my supports out of there to change the seal and let it hang just from the motor mounts? I thought it had to be supported while the tranny was out.
I am changing the tail seal on the transfer case because that leaks too.
Oh and my friend, who was helping me, while looking at the old throwout bearing decided to compress it while standing in my mom and dads garage......yeah it was like supersoaker time with the stream of brake fluid shooting across the shop. Thank God it didn't shoot on my dads 67 chevelle or I would have been disowned and towing my jeep and a box of parts to a new location
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Unread 08-16-2008, 02:46 PM   #7
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Brake fluid is very harsh on paint. Really nasty stuff, akin to paint stripper. Yes, support your motor, it is easy to do with a pile of 2 X 4 pieces, or a jackstand. Pretty simple to do. Remember you'll be torquing on the bearing cap pretty heavily, 85 ftlbs to tighten them, and likely more to bust them loose. Make sure whatever your support is made of can resist that twisting force and not topple over.
Quite frequently when you have leaking from the tail shaft, it's not just the seal, there is a bushing in there as well that costs about $8, you have to press it out, and press the new bushing in.
You've gotta quit adding jobs in, I keep punishing you with all kinds of other "while you have it apart" chores. At any rate, these are all good things to do.
Working on Jeeps is sorta like the "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" children's story. If you pull something apart, there are always a ton of other things you get stuck into doing at the same time. It's a Jeep thing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
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You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 08-16-2008, 08:52 PM   #8
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Well I took the flywheel in to the shop to have it sent out and refinished I asked about the rear main seal and his thought was this "look at the back of the flywheel if there was a rear main seal leak it would be soaked with oil and its not" my motor only has around 60 thousand original miles on it. I wonder if its a miles or time thing that leads to leaking rear main. Its almost 20 years old but low miles. I think I'm going to wait on the rear main at this point. Only because I NEED to get her back on the road, its my only ride, and I'm borrowing a ride right now. Between the valve cover and all the other crap I have to do to get it back together I'm with you on thinking you gotta stop somewhere. I need to get the things on the list done and go from there.
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Unread 08-18-2008, 08:48 PM   #9
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Got the flywheel clutch and tranny bolted back up tonight. Tomorrow we'll button up the rest and cross our fingers.
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Unread 08-19-2008, 07:42 PM   #10
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Well crossing fingers didn't do any good. still chattering and hard to get into gear. If there was a problem with the transfer case would it cause the tranny to do weird stuff like this?
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Unread 08-19-2008, 08:38 PM   #11
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mine does something similar, after it has been run a little while if im going about 40 or above in neutral it clatters, it is also "mechanical" to put it in gear. I rebuilt it a year and a half ago with all new bearings, synchros and seals. It hasd a new clutch and i just recenetly replaced the slave/master with a pre bled one. Mine leaks out of the back of the transmission and out of the hole that is on the back left of the transmission where it connects to the transfer case. The gear oil collects in between the transfercase and transmission and then goes out the hole. Ive replaced the rear seal on the transmission twice and it still leaks so i beleive that the main shaft has some play in it now.

If i put the transfer case in neutral and put the transmission in 4th or 5th, it makes a weering noise and kind of clicks. I cant pinpoint the sound though so i dont know if its the transfercase or transmission. I hope this helps a little even if it is just letting you know that your not alone.

I will be beating the snot out of the transmission until next summer, then it is getting a new tranny, clutch, flywheel, and i am rebuilding the transfer case.
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Unread 08-20-2008, 07:14 PM   #12
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son of sam It sounds like we do have the same problem, except mines not drivable. tonight when I was messing with it I put the transfer case in neutral and tranny in neutral let out on the clutch. The clattering was gone but just a little light clanking you could barely hear it. Put it in 1st let out on the clutch and I get the same chattering sound. It has to be the tranny right because the transfer case in neutral if theres a noise its gotta be in the tranny correct? Now when mine is in neutral (transfer case in gear too) it kind of feels like for a second before it starts chattering its going to move forward. almost like its between a gear and neutral. You said you rebuilt yours, did you do it yourself? How hard are they to rebuild? I was thinking about doing it myself if I could find some info on the process. I mean I looked up my warranty papers for the tranny and it was only for 12,000 miles guess I'm about 8,000 miles over the warranty period...yipee
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Unread 08-20-2008, 09:44 PM   #13
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Its not hard to rebuild, i took it all apart down to the mainshafts with the gears and stuff on them and then took the shafts to a shop and had them put on all the synchros and stuff. The hardest part is getting the two shafts into the intermediate plate. It took me about a day to get it out and tear it down, then a day to put it back together and get it back in. It took me two weeks though because i lost a snap ring. Just buy a box of ziploc bags and a sharpie and put every nut and bolt into bags and label them. It makes it much easier. I bought the kit off of ebay, it was the most complete kit and also the cheapest. Look around for the factory service manual for it though. It makes it so much easier, actually its nesscesary.

When i took it to the guy, he looked at the synchros and everything and asked me why i wanted new stuff on it because everything looked good, i had him put it all on anyways cause I had bought it already.


When the transfer case is in neutral, the shaft in the transfer case is still spinning which is turning some gears, but those gears arn't connected to anything if that makes sense. So it could be in the transfer case.

I fixed the exhaust today and now i can hear the trans better, if i am coasting above like 25 in neutral with the clutch in or out there is a whirring/clinking sound until i push it into gear then it dissapears.
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Unread 08-20-2008, 09:48 PM   #14
Opihi59
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Or if you don't have the FSM: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/AX15.pdf
Watch out for the shift shaft interlock pins and balls, they don't get adequate mention.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 08-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #15
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they wernt too bad, just use some vasoline to hold them into place
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