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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:01 PM   #76
ClarkRCC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtime_ironman View Post
Actually, most new welding in the US is done with MIG or some variation of it. Its a lot easier to make a strong MIG weld, and cheaper too on the big jobs. Including giant bridge beams, construction equipment, pipeing, ships, etc. Have you ever drove over the Oakland bridge, or a highway overpass? I welded some of that. MIG tends to have better penetration and therefore better strength in the hands of less-skilled operators. This is *because* of the smaller wire and therefore greater energy density. Not to mention lack of solid particle slag inclusions.

The strongest stick weld I ever did held 110K lbs hydraulic force, and so did the strongest MIG I ever did. Both welds were done on 1-inch thick plate, and both the stick and MIG were rated for 70K lbs.

They both have their uses tho depending on the situation - You have to learn when to use which tool for what job. Unless the specs or the building code specifically call out for doing the job a certain way.
.
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i wouldnt say it is easier to make a stronger weld with MIG. yes it is easier to teach a person to MIG, pretty much anyone can MIG, but setting up a machine properly is where most people fail at MIG welding thus getting poor penetration. it is cheaper because of how simple it is to teach but most guys working out in the field today dont have any formal training and thats why companies can hire guys on at 15-18 dollars and hour

also pipelining i know is still mostly stick welding, i can agree most structural welding is changing over to MIG, but schools and trade schools are teaching it as stick welding because of the demand.

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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #77
oldtime_ironman
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Originally Posted by Ripper3494 View Post
found it, your right 6013, says on the rod itself
Yep I can tell just by looking at the weld.

Since there's no way to really control the heat on this setup, maybe you could lower the RPM's a bit, hold the rod in a bit closer also. I'm pretty sure that your setup has enuff balls to really use 7018 rod, which is a good thing. Its the industry standard "strong stuff".
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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:10 PM   #78
Ripper3494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkRCC View Post
i wouldnt say it is easier to make a stronger weld with MIG. yes it is easier to teach a person to MIG, pretty much anyone can MIG, but setting up a machine properly is where most people fail at MIG welding thus getting poor penetration. it is cheaper because of how simple it is to teach but most guys working out in the field today dont have any formal training and thats why companies can hire guys on at 15-18 dollars and hour

also pipelining i know is still mostly stick welding, i can agree most structural welding is changing over to MIG, but schools and trade schools are teaching it as stick welding because of the demand.
the part about it being easy to learn mig is 100% true i wouldnt consider myself to be a good welder but i can make mig look decent
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build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:10 PM   #79
oldtime_ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkRCC View Post
i wouldnt say it is easier to make a stronger weld with MIG. yes it is easier to teach a person to MIG, pretty much anyone can MIG, but setting up a machine properly is where most people fail at MIG welding thus getting poor penetration. it is cheaper because of how simple it is to teach but most guys working out in the field today dont have any formal training and thats why companies can hire guys on at 15-18 dollars and hour

also pipelining i know is still mostly stick welding, i can agree most structural welding is changing over to MIG, but schools and trade schools are teaching it as stick welding because of the demand.
You said it better than I did. Setup is where the training comes in handy until one has the experience. I've taught lots of guys but it was always me who did the setups.

I want to emphasize tho, that the joint design and prep has just as much to do with strength and penetration.

I wish I made $18 an hour, but my area sucks and non union. Best I ever did was $10 an hour for ASME work. I make more working for myself.
.
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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:12 PM   #80
Ripper3494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtime_ironman View Post
Yep I can tell just by looking at the weld.

Since there's no way to really control the heat on this setup, maybe you could lower the RPM's a bit, hold the rod in a bit closer also. I'm pretty sure that your setup has enuff balls to really use 7018 rod, which is a good thing. Its the industry standard "strong stuff".
the welds in the pics were done between 1800 and 1500 rpms, because my hand throttle slipped down a bit, so yea im sure it could handle a slightly bigger rod, right now im using lincon electric rods, ill pick up some 7018 next time im shopping for stuff and give it a shot
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build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #81
oldtime_ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper3494 View Post
the welds in the pics were done between 1800 and 1500 rpms, because my hand throttle slipped down a bit, so yea im sure it could handle a slightly bigger rod, right now im using lincon electric rods, ill pick up some 7018 next time im shopping for stuff and give it a shot
Lincoln Electric is good stuff -- they practically invented this 100 yrs ago. You maybe able to back the throttle down to about 1400 RPM either way. 7018 tends to be a lot smoother and cleaner - you can make it look almost like a MIG. But it takes a *lot* of practice to get to that point.
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Unread 12-15-2011, 04:27 PM   #82
Ripper3494
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thats good, the lower the rpm the less gas my 6.0 eats up lol
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build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #83
HurricaneRZA
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Now the rods you are using... Are they just being held by the teeth of the alligator clip or am I just a super n00b
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[QUOTE=YoureverydayXJ;14318981]This is the most metal thing I have ever heard.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=doublins;15539665]I always get people coming over and saying things like "I wish I knew how to do that," etc- but they don't realize- at some point I didn't know how to do it either- I had to figure it out.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 05:12 PM   #84
Ripper3494
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you can either use jumper cables, although doing it that way is more of a pain than its worth, or go to harbor freight and pick up a cheap stinger to hold the rod. this one is off another stick welder, i just cut it and stripped the other end, then clipped the positive from the alt onto that

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build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 06:05 PM   #85
HurricaneRZA
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Ah I get it now that I see the pic
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[QUOTE=YoureverydayXJ;14318981]This is the most metal thing I have ever heard.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=doublins;15539665]I always get people coming over and saying things like "I wish I knew how to do that," etc- but they don't realize- at some point I didn't know how to do it either- I had to figure it out.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 07:17 PM   #86
meSiLlY
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Damn.. I'm a cert'd welder too. Mig, ,tig ,stick and gas.. This has got to be the best mod yet!!!!!

I'll be surfing JY's tomorrow looking for an alternator! Have you considered a serpentine pulley setup? I see you're limited in room but with more surface area.. I think it's the way I'm gonna go. Choke lock for throttle, Alt mounted permanent with adjustable tension so I can remove the belt when not in use, dash switch for field lead, etc..

Can the field wire screw with anything on the vehicle, in any worse case scenarios? I mean.. aside form letting it drain your batt over night. heh..

Oh and yay to 7018!!
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Unread 12-15-2011, 07:29 PM   #87
oldtime_ironman
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Originally Posted by meSiLlY View Post
Damn.. I'm a cert'd welder too. Mig, ,tig ,stick and gas.. This has got to be the best mod yet!!!!!

I'll be surfing JY's tomorrow looking for an alternator! Have you considered a serpentine pulley setup? I see you're limited in room but with more surface area.. I think it's the way I'm gonna go. Choke lock for throttle, Alt mounted permanent with adjustable tension so I can remove the belt when not in use, dash switch for field lead, etc..

Can the field wire screw with anything on the vehicle, in any worse case scenarios? I mean.. aside form letting it drain your batt over night. heh..

Oh and yay to 7018!!
You too? Stick, mig, tig and gas here. Mostly ASME boiler section 8 and 9 (repair).
Maybe you could use an electric A/C clutch on the alt for the belt? That way you could use the same switch for the belt drive *and* the field wire. Or weld on an old vise-grips to a bracket to tension it?

No the field wire won't screw with anything else, but I would put a fuse in it tho.
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Unread 12-15-2011, 07:48 PM   #88
Ripper3494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meSiLlY View Post
Damn.. I'm a cert'd welder too. Mig, ,tig ,stick and gas.. This has got to be the best mod yet!!!!!

I'll be surfing JY's tomorrow looking for an alternator! Have you considered a serpentine pulley setup? I see you're limited in room but with more surface area.. I think it's the way I'm gonna go. Choke lock for throttle, Alt mounted permanent with adjustable tension so I can remove the belt when not in use, dash switch for field lead, etc..

Can the field wire screw with anything on the vehicle, in any worse case scenarios? I mean.. aside form letting it drain your batt over night. heh..

Oh and yay to 7018!!
i thought about putting it on a serpentine belt but the v belt set up was just simpler for me and it fit really well. this way i just slip it on and off. to be honest the reason i picked the v belt was because i thought it didnt really need to be tight like a serpentine... our tractors isnt tight and it works, but oh well its good now.

the field wire wont mess with anything other than drain your batt, its just a direct connection from batt to field terminal on the alt
__________________
build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 07:50 PM   #89
Ripper3494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtime_ironman View Post
You too? Stick, mig, tig and gas here. Mostly ASME boiler section 8 and 9 (repair).
Maybe you could use an electric A/C clutch on the alt for the belt? That way you could use the same switch for the belt drive *and* the field wire. Or weld on an old vise-grips to a bracket to tension it?

No the field wire won't screw with anything else, but I would put a fuse in it tho.
.
another way to tension it would be those two threaded rods with a hook on either end... one rod is reverse threaded so when you spin the middle sleeve it spreads and pulls em together (cant think of what its called right now) but that may work as well
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build thread:
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/94-yj-6-0-build-spud-1218315/[/url]
1994 yj stretched, locked and loaded - 6.0l vortec lq4, 4l60e, np231, Dana 44s 37" interco trxus m/t, 3.5" bds front leafs, double triangulated 4 link rear on xj front coils.
1997 ZJ limited - BONE stock
2003 tj - 4in skyjacker, 33" mickey thompsons
my on board alternator/welder write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/alternator-welder-write-up-1301614/[/url]
my tj 1/2 doors on a yj write up
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/tj-uppers-yj-half-doors-hard-top-installation-1417686/[/url]
RC vs BDS
[url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/rough-country-vs-bds-1461555/[/url]
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Unread 12-15-2011, 07:51 PM   #90
oldtime_ironman
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Hey Ripper, what do you think of this idea? Maybe you could use an electric A/C clutch on the alt for the belt? That way you could use the same switch for the belt drive *and* the field wire. Or weld on an old vise-grips to a bracket to tension it?
.
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