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Unread 07-29-2011, 12:31 PM   #1
ApocalypseJeep
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AH, WTF NOW! My Jeep is killing me!!!

So, After spending a few days taking the head off to remove a snapped manifold stud, and replacing the exhaust manifold, and all brand new vac lines, and cleaned injectors, I got her all buttoned up and was running like a champ,...for a week. Then on start up yesterday, out of the blue a quiet tapping got louder and louder, so I shut her down to prevent any further damage, and proceeded to swear like a trucker for about 15 minutes.
After chillin' out for a minute, I decided to pull the valve cover, praying that it's something in the valve area, and not a thrown piston rod. Well, got the cover off and layed some towls around the area, checked all the torque values, and fired her up. Oil flow looked good across the rockers, but when I placed a thumb on the #1 and #6 intake rocker and pressed down, they sank in and the sound went away. So I threw the cover back on and took it for a mile long loop to see whats up. It was running awsome, up until about a block from my house and the ticking started again, and it got louder with increased rev, so I parked it. My guess, Collapsed Lifters.

I guess that means that I have to tear the head off, AGAIN! Being that I just did this job a week ago, at least I know what I'm getting into. I've read from alot of other forums and blogs that it is ok to use new lifters on an old cam, just not a new cam and old lifters. I would like to get a new cam, but this peice of ***** has about nickel and dimed me to death, so I can afford it.

I have an idea that might speed up this process. could I just remove the intake manifold, leaving the exhaust manifoldon for something that could give me a bit move leverage when putting it back on? the exhaust manifold has three bolt that aren't used by the intake, so this could be possible. I've heard of leaving both on, buy I dont have the man power or a lift to make this possible, too heavy. Just looking for tips to speed this up, maybe some tricks I don't know about.

Honestly, thinking this might be my last fix cause I'm about to sell or burn it!

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Unread 07-29-2011, 12:42 PM   #2
tslroper
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I could be wrong, but I believe the lifters can be pulled with the head on with a special tool. From what I understand, you could probably just use the cheapo extending magnetic pick-ups they sell at autozone to pull them up through the head. I could be wrong though, and this may not apply for your motor either.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 01:18 PM   #3
ApocalypseJeep
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No, on the 4.0 you must remove the head. The pushrod holes are far to small for the lifters to pass through.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #4
Que89YJ
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You know its a pita so get the cam bearings and lifter and do it all. As far as the manifolds go, remove the fender and its easy access.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 03:12 PM   #5
Louie4
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That sucks about the lifters. My buddy had the same thing happen to him (sort of). We replaced the carb on his CJ-7 with a Weber because it had no power but did when we first cranked it. Well a new weber and no power. Finally we pulled the valve cover and found 3-4 bent pushrods. Got new rods and it ran better but popped like crazy, so we got a new timing chain (this was after taking the head off and getting a valve job). The new chain only made the popping louder and faster. Finally we tore into it and replaced the cam and lifters. We found 2 worn lobes.

I say pull the motor or drop the grill to work on it.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 06:31 PM   #6
ApocalypseJeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post
That sucks about the lifters. My buddy had the same thing happen to him (sort of). We replaced the carb on his CJ-7 with a Weber because it had no power but did when we first cranked it. Well a new weber and no power. Finally we pulled the valve cover and found 3-4 bent pushrods. Got new rods and it ran better but popped like crazy, so we got a new timing chain (this was after taking the head off and getting a valve job). The new chain only made the popping louder and faster. Finally we tore into it and replaced the cam and lifters. We found 2 worn lobes.

I say pull the motor or drop the grill to work on it.
I don't have any of those problems, All pushrods are straight, no popping, Allready has a new timing chain. All it is, loud chattering lifters. Don't really see a need to tear it down more than I have to. There's is plenty of threads on here where some one would just change the lifters, and everything was good.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 06:47 PM   #7
jdubsjeep
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I think just about everyone's Jeep ticks. I am used to hi performammce stuff but these things are in a league of their own. I now compare the ticking noise to a heartbeat, as long as it's ticking it is running. That's as much as I will put into it until a rebuild
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Unread 07-29-2011, 07:20 PM   #8
plym49
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How bad is the lifter knock? BTW you will not hurt anything by driving it. A noisy valve is noisy. A tight valve can burn. You will have to listen to it and you will lose a little power, but you can drive it to see if they pump up again. Probably a bit of smudge from when you pulled the head went thru the oil system and got stuck in the lifters. It might clear itself out with additional driving.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 07:41 PM   #9
ApocalypseJeep
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Originally Posted by plym49 View Post
How bad is the lifter knock? BTW you will not hurt anything by driving it. A noisy valve is noisy. A tight valve can burn. You will have to listen to it and you will lose a little power, but you can drive it to see if they pump up again. Probably a bit of smudge from when you pulled the head went thru the oil system and got stuck in the lifters. It might clear itself out with additional driving.
One of the lifters is pretty loud. It sounds like tapping the valve cover with a screw driver. Like I said, when I ran it without the valve cover, I pressed down on the #1 intake rocker near the push rod and the sound completely went away. Infact I threw the cover back on and went for a spin, and it was fine until I was just about home, and it got loud again. Probaly gunked up. The PO was obviously not very good on oil changes, due to the fact that everything was pretty nasty under the valve cover, and in the timing chain area. Before this, it was definitely noisy. It sounded like some one typing on a metal keyboard, but now, too loud for my taste.

I don't think it's a cam issue, because pressing on the rocker might of only quited the sound for a second, and not enough to take it on a cruise and to have it reoccur right before returning. I hit like 5 light, went up hill and everthing, and only until just before home did it start again. I've read plenty of post stating that a cam change was in order, but they all had much more mileage than I do. I only got 111k on a 93. I'd rather just change the lifters and maybe sell it before something else dies.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 08:00 PM   #10
plym49
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From what you are saying, just drive it. Change the oil with a good quality synthetic, I would suggest at the lighter (numerically lower) range of the weight, Like 5W-30. Drive it and change the oil and filter again after 1500 miles. It will probably clear up. BTW is it an intake or exhaust valve? Just curious.

Some people swear by flushing products like Seafoam. Personally I do not care much for them. It would not hurt to add some Marvel Mystery Oil (half a quart or so) in addition to the normal quantity of oil. MMO is light enough to possibly help flush out the lifters.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 10:37 PM   #11
ApocalypseJeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plym49 View Post
From what you are saying, just drive it. Change the oil with a good quality synthetic, I would suggest at the lighter (numerically lower) range of the weight, Like 5W-30. Drive it and change the oil and filter again after 1500 miles. It will probably clear up. BTW is it an intake or exhaust valve? Just curious.

Some people swear by flushing products like Seafoam. Personally I do not care much for them. It would not hurt to add some Marvel Mystery Oil (half a quart or so) in addition to the normal quantity of oil. MMO is light enough to possibly help flush out the lifters.
I guess this could be a good point. I did have to scrap a crap load of the old head gasket off, and it was pretty gunky inside already. I also find it weird that it would do this so suddenly. I would think that this would be a problem that would start small and get worse, and not be fine for a week and crappy the next. It sounds so loud, it's hard to want to drive it. I wouldn't want to bend a pushrod, or damage a rocker arm, but at least you don't have to take the head off to get to those parts.
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Unread 07-29-2011, 10:42 PM   #12
Peter Nuss
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Dump a quart of ATF in the crankcase and drive it for a 300 miles and change the oil. It will not hurt anything and might clear up the noise.
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Unread 07-30-2011, 04:30 AM   #13
oldtime_ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nuss View Post
Dump a quart of ATF in the crankcase and drive it for a 300 miles and change the oil. It will not hurt anything and might clear up the noise.
^^^ X2 on the ATF... its one of the oldest tricks in the book for cleaning out varnish and gunk build-up. It won't work in extreme cases tho. In my area I can get a set of lifters and a new head gasket for about $50 and that's what I would do. Dump out all the old oil and filter before you change the lifters - that way you dont have the risk of gunking up a brand-new set.

Hey who knows, maybe you'll feel like keeping it after that!

Last edited by oldtime_ironman; 07-30-2011 at 04:40 AM.. Reason: details of oil
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Unread 07-30-2011, 09:27 AM   #14
Firefyter-Emt
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I will go with the Seafoam route. I have used this stuff a lot in small engines and it does wonders in fuel systems. Follow the directions, add it to the oil (heck, may as well do the fuel system too) and run it for a day or so to see it it clears up. If it was fine before, then I doubt it is a "bad lifter" but just got clogged with gunk. Even if you still have to get into the motor to replace the lifters, the Seafoam will clean it out a bit so that when you do the lifter swap, and drain the oil, you will be left with a cleaner motor.
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Unread 07-30-2011, 05:14 PM   #15
ApocalypseJeep
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I just ran into another fellow jeeper and he suggested running a quart of ATF through the motor and seeing if it helps. I guess it would be easier than tearing the head off again. I guess if I had to change the lifters, it would be nice to have an internally cleaner engine. I'll try it out and see what happens.
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