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Unread 08-06-2010, 06:16 PM   #16
Uberjeep
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As strange as this may sound, it may also be a pressure plate/friction disc issue. I had EXACTLY the same symptoms, went through the same process, replaced master cylinder, bled lines, reverse bled lines, power bled lines (pickle jar, squeeze bulb, and a check valve), and tried every piece of advice I could find here and elsewhere. I was finally resided to pulling the tranny to check/replace the internal slave cylinder. When I un-bolted the bellhousing I found a few shards of metal in the bottom of the housing. I removed the pressure plate of the clutch to check the friction disc condition and discovered that the splined hub of the friction disc was free floating(somewhat) and that the retainers for the springs on the friction disc were mostly mangled/missing. The internal slave cylinder was fine, but with the random metal chunks floating in between the pressure plate and friction disc, it casued all of the same symptoms. It would be fine for weeks on end, then pull up at a light and not be able to put it in first gear. It felt like the clutch wasn't engaged, but no gears grinding at all. Shift into second or reverse, then back to first and it was fine. I am thinking that because it wasn't fully disengaging the clutch, there was rotation of the input shaft of the tranny more than what the synchros were capable of dealing with. Kinda like trying to downshift to first at 60Mph. Even though the internal slave was fine, I still decided to upgrade to the external style, so I ended up getting a complete NV3550 with bellhousing to bolt back in.

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Unread 08-06-2010, 06:17 PM   #17
Mean Max
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoronaCowboy View Post
Max,

Thanks for the suggestions...


I've never bled a manual transmission before. Is there a forum post that would walk me through this that you know about?
For clarity, it's not the transmission that gets bled, it's the hydraulic system that operates the clutch. It's really easy, you insure the reservoir is full at the master, then have an assistant pump the pedal 1 time & hold it while you open the bleed valve located on the hard line coming out of the slave cylinder. Once you open the valve & release the pressure, close the valve before the assistant releases the pedal. Repeat this cycle about 3 times & recheck the fluid level. DO NOT ALLOW THE RSERVOIR TO RUN EMPTY!


I've read on various posts that Penzoil Synchromesh is a good replacement oil for the transmission, which i've just purchased... but not put in yet. What do you think?
Personally, I hate the stuff. I have never had decent results with it, and I have used it before so this comes from my own experience. I use Wal-Mart brand 10W-30 and LOVE it.


I'll save this option for last! I'm on a strict budget right now

Thanks again!
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Unread 08-06-2010, 06:24 PM   #18
CrzyMtnMan
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I agree, this is most likely clutch related. I have the same problem in my Subaru when a floor mat gets pinched under the pedal. Follow the hydraulic clutch trouble tree, built upon previous posts, more that likely that is your problem.
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Unread 08-07-2010, 07:44 AM   #19
monkeyhouse
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Max is dead on with that link for bleeding, of course you could fit all I know about jeeps in the last knuckle of Max's pinky. I agree with one pump, especially in this case, although I have had an occurance where my pedal went straight to the floor and had to pump it several times just to build any pressure at all. I would also re-iterate that this process can take many, many times. I have had to do this 5 or 6 times to get all of the air out before and you can only do this twice without refilling...it's a very small master cylinder, so please make sure you check it and check it often while bleeding. Good luck and post back your results, you're in good hands when Max is at the keyboard!
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Unread 08-09-2010, 09:31 AM   #20
CoronaCowboy
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This weekend I bled the clutch---extensively. I also inspected the master cylinder on both sides of the firewall and couldn't see any signs of leakage.

Here are my results:

The clutch and shifting worked like a champ when I started driving. After about 15 minutes, it started having the same troubles as I described in my original post.

I thought that was weird.

Next day, Jeep cold again, went for another test drive. It again worked flawlessly, shifting smoothly, until about 15 minutes into the drive, then started acting up again.

Any thoughts on what is heating up and causing trouble?

I'm going to drain and re-fill the transmission with 10W-30 next.

Thanks all!
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Unread 08-09-2010, 09:49 PM   #21
CrzyMtnMan
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One more on the master cylinder, I appologize for this, anytime you bleed an older master cylinder, put a foot under the pedal, when you bleed and older cylinder typically there will be corrosion/oxydation in the cylider from normal travel, you can not pump an older cylinder, full travel as the wear will just allow air past the o-rings. Works find until it heats up, sounds like the clutch.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 11:03 PM   #22
tyrap26
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bleeding a clutch is like bleeding a brake system. its a 2 mans job,
1- have somebody pump the pedal few times then hold it down
2- open the bleeder valve
3- shut the bleeder repeat until no air in the system
fairly easy.

idk in what condition your jeep is but go easy on the bleeder, you dont want to break it when trying to unscrew..

i had similar problem on a different car.. ended up being my clutch that was going away..just make sure you dont replace part for no reason but X2 on the bleeding first.. it doesnt cost much and is easy.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 11:05 PM   #23
tyrap26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrzyMtnMan View Post
One more on the master cylinder, I appologize for this, anytime you bleed an older master cylinder, put a foot under the pedal, when you bleed and older cylinder typically there will be corrosion/oxydation in the cylider from normal travel, you can not pump an older cylinder, full travel as the wear will just allow air past the o-rings. Works find until it heats up, sounds like the clutch.
good point i was going to point that out also... but i figured clutch are supose to be pressed in all the way when shifting... not like brake masters...but yes the man knows whats hes talking about
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