'90 Violent Cold Start Up, Rough Idle, No Vacuum Leaks. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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'90 Violent Cold Start Up, Rough Idle, No Vacuum Leaks.

So atop other maintenance I have been doing the last few days such as a coolant change, new sparks, new boots, new grease, etc I put in a carb rebuild for my carter carb.

I really only sprayed it up and down with Carb cleaner wiping it clean then put on the new seals after getting rid of the old ones. I meticulously checked every part i took off, every tube, every spring.

I must have missed something or done something wrong I figure.

The engine violently starts up cold until 140+ Degrees is reached. By violent I mean the engine jerks the jeep enough to rock left and right.

Then after reaching temp it idles at 500 in every gear. P and N don't change it to a higher RPM like they did before I put in the rebuild.

I didn't unscrew anything but the mounts holding the carb to the manifold and holding itself together. All springs I simply unhooked.

I checked for vacuum leaks, for gas flow, springs, bolts, etc.

I have 2 days to fix this because I have to get back to East LA >.>


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 04:58 PM
laybackman
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If you did the rebuild on your carb with a rebuild kit and all the internals went in right, it could be the choke is not set right. Once it warms up it seems to run right correct?

Pull the air cleaner off when it is cold push the gas pedal part way down. If the choke is a mechanical one (no electrical wire on it) the choke should set itself almost closed. Then once you fire up the engine according to the tension of the choke spring that is determined by the temperature of the spring the choke will stay in that position or open up some. On the outside cover of the choke there is some markings on it to help you set the spring tension on that choke tension spring.

If it is an electrical choke then it needs to be wired up AND if you installed a gasket behind the electric choke it has no ground!

Do you know what was good about the good old days? I wasn't good, And I wasn't old!

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post #3 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laybackman View Post
If it is an electrical choke then it needs to be wired up AND if you installed a gasket behind the electric choke it has no ground!
I do know there are 3 arms connecting to my choke. 1 is just static, 1 is connected to a vacuum solenoid, and one is connected to a large cylindrical body with 2 wires going to it.

The choke only faces vertical unless I hand adjust it.

I only installed gaskets that I removed, I was spraying the whole structure with carb cleaner and WD-40.

According to another 90' owner the choke is mostly electric.

I guess its time to search for a bad ground!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta347 View Post
I do know there are 3 arms connecting to my choke. 1 is just static, 1 is connected to a vacuum solenoid, and one is connected to a large cylindrical body with 2 wires going to it.

The choke only faces vertical unless I hand adjust it.

I only installed gaskets that I removed, I was spraying the whole structure with carb cleaner and WD-40.

According to another 90' owner the choke is mostly electric.

I guess its time to search for a bad ground!
With an electric choke the choke is grounded by simply being bolted down. That is why if there is a gasket behind it you have no ground. The choke 'pull off' could be faulty. When you are starting up the choke pull off should move some and then the choke gets adjusted electrically according to engine temps.

Do you know what was good about the good old days? I wasn't good, And I wasn't old!

Senators and Congressman should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we could identify their corporate sponsors....
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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Just to put it out there my jeep is nuttered. Incase that affects the choke's electric aspect.

What happens if the pull off is faulty? Do i need to seek a replacement part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 07:24 PM
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The Nutter won't affect the choke.

If the pull off is faulty then it won't pull the choke open properly on first start up and it could cause hard starting and rich running.

Yup, you'd want to hit a junk yard for another one.

One question, did you put the small and slightly larger ball bearings back into their proper holes inside the jet area and Venturi cluster?
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
The Nutter won't affect the choke.

If the pull off is faulty then it won't pull the choke open properly on first start up and it could cause hard starting and rich running.

Yup, you'd want to hit a junk yard for another one.

One question, did you put the small and slightly larger ball bearings back into their proper holes inside the jet area and Venturi cluster?
I made sure both stayed right where they were the entire time. I could rip it open again and make sure, but I am almost entirely positive.

I'm guessing the pull off is bad at this point. Between the nasty start up and the white/grey smoke coming out my tailpipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Just to check,

How bad is it to drive with a faulty pull off?

I am 118miles from my other vehicle which is at my apartment, and have to get back there in 2 days via 1.5hrs of freeway travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
Delta347 is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 09:24 PM
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Not bad at all. Once the choke warms up the plate will stay open.
A faulty pull off will cause hard starts but once that choke plate opens up all the way, the engine should run fine.

IF...after the engine warms up to 210 and it's still running really bad then it's not the pull off for the choke. It's something else.

To check the choke pull off, take off your air cleaner, with the engine not running look at the little diaphragm on it. Now, start the engine. The full manifold vacuum should be pulling the choke pull off back. If it looks like it did when the engine wasn't running then it's not working. You could also just hook up some long vacuum hose to it and suck on the hose hard (sorry about the way that sounds) and it should pull back.

One other thing you might want to check while you have the air cleaner off is to see if gas is dripping down inside the carb throat. There should be no dripping.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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Yeah I checked on the gas dripping, there wasn't any. That was one of the first things I looked for.

My jeep has a habit of developing pairs of problems. . .

From what I have gathered. All my vacuum lines are good (no leaks). The idle tubes are good, so no gas dripping.

There is a violent start up, but after the engine reaches 150+ it runs 'ok'.

It just has a stubborn idle.

In any gear besides N or P it has a metallic popping sound. In N or P it has a 5 ticks per second sound like a stop watch going fast.

It idles at 550 in R,D,2,L
It idles at 600 in P,N

It used to be 600 / 900

It doesn't seem to cut out if it hits 400 but its not a happy camper.

The choke plate does not move at all. It is vertical at start up, it is vertical at temp, it is vertical on shut off.

There is white smoke gradually coming out at idle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #11 of 25 Old 01-01-2009, 10:37 PM
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Hmmm.....choke plate straight up at start up? Yup, the electric choke should clamp that shut when you push down on the gas pedal even if the engine isn't running and it's cold.

Did you take the choke off to clean it when you rebuilt the carb? Are all of the choke rods in place? Nothing missing? Here's a good, yet big picture:
http://carb-shop.net/images/IMG_1379.jpg

Also, I believe white smoke is indicative of a coolant leak. I've helped work on a Pinto once that had a bad head gasket. It had a small amount of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. Replaced the head gasket and no more white smoke. So...does the white smoke go away once the engine is warmed up?
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post #12 of 25 Old 01-02-2009, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
Delta347
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I actually left the choke plate in place and simply removed that whole segment of the carb. I made sure to carefully disconnect and organize the rods attaching to it and the clips used to hold the rods onto it and replace them all (cept using new clips).

The coolant leak is a SLIGHT possibility. I am in the middle of replacing the coolant. I have water mixed with one of those radiator cleaners and coolant all in the cooling system at the moment. They may have removed enough gunk to cause a leak on a dmg'd gasket. I'd sure hate it to be that =/

Can't white smoke also be indicative of a system running rich? or is that black?

I am 95% sure the smoke goes away when 1000RPM + is achieved. I will have to double check tmrw.

Actually I have a theory that would support the gasket being damaged or broken:

Day 1: I was driving home from meeting a friend for lunch. I passed fiesta island (a place that usually has decent mud puddles for a week after the rain). I kicked it into 4h and plowed through 3 puddles which were big enough to coat the whole jeep. Now normally that wouldn't be a problem aye? But one of my pulse air pipes is busted as I may have mentioned in another thread. It sucks air into the catalytic which spews rusty/clay muck into the air filter housing. After that short mud session the jeep was stalling and dying at stop lights so I was jumping between N and D to keep it running. It wasn't the first time it acted like that so I assumed it was just being stubborn. I then let it sit over night after cleaning out the housing and checking that the carb was clean.
Day 2: install the carb rebuild. Has violent start up (assumed it was the carb cleaner burning off). idle'd fine for the remainder of that day as I checked the timing.
Day 3: Today's issues arise.

I am assuming that because there was about 2-3oz of water-mud in the air filter housing that some of that got into the carb and went into the engine and perhaps blew a head gasket?

OR the coolant cleaner may have revealed a damaged one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #13 of 25 Old 01-02-2009, 08:45 AM
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I know that gray/black is rich because of a self induced "rough running, overly rich" problem I worked through a week or so ago. I had put my old Carter back on and put the old hard fuel line back on also. Apparently some junk had blown into the hard line while it was on the floor for a few months and I hadn't noticed when I put it back on. It was causing the fuel pressure to be too high for the float needle and filling up the float bowl and leaking into the venturi area. The exhaust was definitely grayish-black.

I believe a blueish color is oil and white is coolant.

If the white smoke is present at idle even when the engine is completely warmed up and has been driven for a while then it's either really cold out (normal steam) or there is a very small head gasket leak or the catalytic converter is burning off something. In a text book case of a blown head gasket you'd have oil in your coolant or coolant in your oil making it milky. But, it is possible to have a blown head gasket and not have any of those symptoms. You'd need to take it to someone and have them the analyze the coolant for exhaust contaminants or purchase a kit like I did that uses a liquid to test the coolant for exhaust fumes. The kit is called the "Universal Block Tester - Combustion Leak Block Tester". It uses a blue liquid that turns yellow in the presence of exhaust fumes. I had to order mine but I'm sure you could find it at Napa.

As for the choke problem and since you don't have much time left I would write down a list of things to check and then go through them one at a time. If you have a blown head gasket then I really wouldn't drive it.
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post #14 of 25 Old 01-02-2009, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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I've never had to change a gasket before so I'm going to have to ask,

Besides the gaskets what will I need?

I have most of the tools that will be required but Im guessing there is a specific torque the bolts have to be set to. In which case I need a torque wrench.

How long/hard will changing the gasket be? (Assuming I have to replace it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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post #15 of 25 Old 01-02-2009, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
Delta347
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One thing to ask besides that,

Wouldn't a blown head gasket be a problem at all speeds? I noticed becasue I drove the jeep to home depot yesterday morning that it runs 'fine' once its over 1000RPM. The only major thing I notice is the pedal feels like it is more pressure on the other end of the pedal. I don't know how to really explain it, I push down and that feeling of resistance or pressure you get back from the engine? Its weird, good ol' YJ things I suppose!

Once my brother wakes up he is taking me to Harbor Freight. I am going to sea foam the engine (if I can get it to run), finish the coolant change (unless the coolant i take out is oily; or the oil is coolanty). Check the pull off before I start it at all. Go over the electrical components. And hope for the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leans93 View Post
So ghost has a plug in his hole and opihi has a gaping hole, Do I need to worry about this hole at all? I just don't want to start her up and have something spewing out of it.
Side Effects may include dry mouth, nausea, vomitting, water retention, painful recolage, hallucination, dementia, psycosis, coma, death, and halitosus. YJs are not for everyone please consult your physician before use.
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