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Unread 02-02-2013, 04:00 AM   #1
SC409
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1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Galena, Missouri
Posts: 8
79 F150 Axle swap.

I need some information on my axle swap.

I bought a Dana 44HP out of 79 F150 Crew Cab. There are no cast coil spring perches since it had leaf springs.

The question is hooking the steering to my stock steering box. I'm sure it's not a direct bolt up, so has any one done this, if so what did you do. Pictures would be great.

I'm also trying to decided whether to cut it down or run it wide. I guess that will depend on the back axle. I'm thinking either a Dana 60 or an 8.8 out of the explorer.

Any thoughts or pictures of past builds like this would be appreciated.

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Unread 02-04-2013, 02:47 PM   #2
fedx95
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Anybody? I'm in the same situation.
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Unread 02-04-2013, 04:26 PM   #3
YJ4LIFE
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: , San Angeles
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do you have pictures?
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'89 YJ, 4.2L, ax-15, B&M shifter, 1" BL, TJ flares, '99 intake, '91 EFI, 5.0L explorer injectors, GenRight tank & stretch, 35" ProComp Xtreme muds, 52" chevy springs rear, 44044 Ranchos front.....
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Unread 02-04-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
czjeeper
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1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Washougal, WA
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Going through this right now.
I cut mine to Wagoneer width, I recommend this for a street driven rig. Trail only, keep it full width.
I'm not sure what to use for a pitman arm.
I'm staying SUA, using a "1 ton" steering kit and the F150 knuckles.
From what I have gathered a Wagoneer drop pitman arm is what I need, but for whatever reason I can't get a clear answer.
I guess we are the first to ever put a HP Dana 44 under a YJ!
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Click here for 2.5L AX5 to AX15 swap
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Unread 02-04-2013, 06:57 PM   #5
jsawduste
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http://d44tech.com/Front_axle.html
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Unread 02-04-2013, 07:03 PM   #6
czjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
He narrowed my housing!
I HIGHLY recommend him.
Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that's my Dana in the YJ article!
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Unread 02-04-2013, 08:25 PM   #7
jsawduste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC409 View Post
I need some information on my axle swap.

I bought a Dana 44HP out of 79 F150 Crew Cab. There are no cast coil spring perches since it had leaf springs.

The question is hooking the steering to my stock steering box. I'm sure it's not a direct bolt up, so has any one done this, if so what did you do. Pictures would be great.

I'm also trying to decided whether to cut it down or run it wide. I guess that will depend on the back axle. I'm thinking either a Dana 60 or an 8.8 out of the explorer.

Any thoughts or pictures of past builds like this would be appreciated.
One major factor is the steering knuckles you have. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but to the best of my knowledge F150`s never had leaf springs. Which brings me back to the knuckles. Are the hubs 5 lug or 8 lug ? 5 lug would be 1/2 ton (F150) while 8 lug would be 3/4 ton (F250)
.
A check on Mr. N`s site is worthwhile. He has an article on knuckles and machining for flat tops as part of his web site.
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

The following comments are prevalent regardless of whether you narrow or run full width. They go against most everything you have heard or read on the `net.

If your YJ will be a trail only rig then disregard my comments below.

If on the other hand your like most folks.....You use you YJ for street and trail..........Then you don`t want a high steer set up. Unless of course you can fab your own Hi Steer arms and run a 17 inch wheel.

Here is why, it is called the Ackerman angle. Read, learn and understand.
http://www.rctek.com/technical/handl...principle.html
http://www.rctek.com/technical/handl...principle.html

To further illustrate the point take a look at the KOH Savvy EMC winning TJ.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...teaser-37.html

Focus on post`s 906 and 925. Do you see that what is likely the best set up TJ in the world DOES NOT have Hi Steer ? The tie rod is at the cast in lower arms of the knuckle !! Why because it is the only way to achieve an acceptable Ackerman angle. John and Gerald Lee had to decide if they wanted a stable well handling rig or a tie rod that was up a few inches. They obviously choose handling and good driving skill over a couple inches of tie rod height.

There are no commercially available hi steer arms that have correct Ackerman. Don`t believe the advertisements and hype. They simply are not available. Most cases you actually end up with reverse Ackerman. Creating an evil handling monster on the street.

Another curse is the inverted T and Y steering linkages.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ngresearch.htm

While a cheap way to make your wheels turn they are the devils curse. There will be folks that say I am full of it for saying that. Those same folks have never driven a correctly set up steering linkage so they have nothing to compare to. Bump steer, poor steering "feel", death wobble to name just a few. Plus NO Ackerman geometry. The tie rod and drag link actually roll on their pivots rather then giving linear steering input.

Here is my set up.
Flat "Astro Van" pitman that uses hi misalignment Chevy TRE`s at the pitman arm and the Hi Steer arm. Wait, you said Hi Steer arms were no good. The DRAG LINK doesn't care where it gets mounted so long as you can achieve as much flatness as you can.. Having it up high flattens the angle out which reduces (among other things) bumpsteer. The key is that I made my own Hi Steer arm that where combined with a Reid knuckle (more on the Reid later) gives me an almost flat drag link. I also drilled the Hi Steer arm so that the drag link TRE is the same center to center distance from the ball joint as the pitman arm. Roughly 6 1/2 inches.

The Reid Dana 44 Knuckle.
http://www.reidracing.biz/off-road-p...na-44-knuckles

Pay particular attention to the next to last feature in the link above.
**Based on the Bronco disc brake knuckle** and fit 1/2 and 3/4 ton brakes

The Bronco cast in TRE arm on the knuckle is shorter/more angled then the longer wheelbase pickup knuckle. Thereby increasing the Ackerman angle for our comparatively similar YJ vs Bronco wheelbases.

So my drag link is mounted on a home made arm and now the tie rod is mounted to the cast in TRE arms on the knuckle. 1.5 OD 1/4 wall DOM tie rod.

I run 37`s so clearance while a consideration is not as critical as someone with a smaller tire. But the big thing is that the YJ handles great. No bump steer, no death wobble and the overall steering action is vastly improved. Anotrher bennie of running 17 inch wheels is that you can use F150 5 lug hubs. Machine a Dodge rotor and fit a Ford F350 1 ton dual piston caliper to your front brakes. Yeah it stops good.

The trade off to all this was a lower tie rod. I can live with it and it seems that many of the top class race folks can and do also.
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Unread 02-04-2013, 09:24 PM   #8
jsawduste
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2006 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,003
A few pictures

Drag link and tie rod


Notice that the drag link is almost parallel to the ground.




View from above. Notice the tie rod attachment and the ball joint C/L. They angle back towards the rear axle giving positive Ackerman.


1 ton dual piston caliper brakes


I still need to remount my ram. Fixed end will go on the topish of the axle tube while the operating end will attach to the tie rod. You can see the hoses hanging down in a couple of the pictures.
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Unread 02-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #9
jsawduste
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Posts: 3,003
If you want we can talk about scrub radius and how it affects steering.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #10
SC409
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1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Galena, Missouri
Posts: 8
Thanks for the info. The D44 came out of a 79 Ford F150 crew cab with front leaf springs. From my research, it's supposedly the same axle from the F250 only with a five bolt pattern. I'm going full width using a 9 inch in the back. I'm working on the complete drivetrain now. SBC but cant decide on tranny and transfer. I have an AX15 with the 231 with SYE I put in a month ago, but the four squirrels are getting tired and I might as well strengthen everything while I'm there. I have a 90 silverado, but I can't tell if it has the NV3500 or not, no one seems to know, with a NP241 transfer. Might put in a 700R4. Any thoughts on the drivetrain?
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Unread 02-07-2013, 05:55 PM   #11
daddyjeep87
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1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Smethport, PA
Posts: 278
Quote:
Here is my set up.
Flat "Astro Van" pitman that uses hi misalignment Chevy TRE`s at the pitman arm and the Hi Steer arm
So....does the Astro pitman arm fit correctly on the stock steering box? Also, I have read recently about using an Astro Steering box when moving the axle forward. Do you have any knowledge on that?
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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:48 PM   #12
jsawduste
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2006 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyjeep87 View Post
So....does the Astro pitman arm fit correctly on the stock steering box? Also, I have read recently about using an Astro Steering box when moving the axle forward. Do you have any knowledge on that?
I honestly cannot 100% answer your question. If I don`t know I don`t make up answers.

My box is a PSC unit therefore I cannot say 100% that an Astro Van arm will fit a stock YJ box. However I am inclined to think that it would. Perhaps someone else that knows will chime in.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 07:51 PM   #13
jsawduste
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2006 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Posts: 3,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC409 View Post
Thanks for the info. The D44 came out of a 79 Ford F150 crew cab with front leaf springs. From my research, it's supposedly the same axle from the F250 only with a five bolt pattern. I'm going full width using a 9 inch in the back. I'm working on the complete drivetrain now. SBC but cant decide on tranny and transfer. I have an AX15 with the 231 with SYE I put in a month ago, but the four squirrels are getting tired and I might as well strengthen everything while I'm there. I have a 90 silverado, but I can't tell if it has the NV3500 or not, no one seems to know, with a NP241 transfer. Might put in a 700R4. Any thoughts on the drivetrain?
If it is a 5 speed manual then it is most likely an NV4500. Don`t think they ever offered an NV3500 in a Chevy Silverado.

A 1 inch BL and a bit of trimming of the floor around the shifter made my NV4500 fit well.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:04 PM   #14
pete1991YJ
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 1,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
If it is a 5 speed manual then it is most likely an NV4500. Don`t think they ever offered an NV3500 in a Chevy Silverado.

A 1 inch BL and a bit of trimming of the floor around the shifter made my NV4500 fit well.
NV3500/3550 was offered in light-duty pickups with the 4.3 and small V-8's up to 2006. What surprises me is that it was offered in a few 2500's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ven...0_transmission

ISTR that you can use the GM 60-degree V-6 bell to mate most GM/Muncie trans to the jeep engines. Said bell would be on the old 2.8 or 3.1 L V-6 motors from the late 1980's thru mid-1990's. Its also a good bell for the SM465 and external slave swaps.

(Yes I was a chevy freak in a former life)
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Unread 02-08-2013, 02:34 AM   #15
jsawduste
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2006 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete1991YJ View Post
NV3500/3550 was offered in light-duty pickups with the 4.3 and small V-8's up to 2006. What surprises me is that it was offered in a few 2500's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ven...0_transmission

ISTR that you can use the GM 60-degree V-6 bell to mate most GM/Muncie trans to the jeep engines. Said bell would be on the old 2.8 or 3.1 L V-6 motors from the late 1980's thru mid-1990's. Its also a good bell for the SM465 and external slave swaps.

(Yes I was a chevy freak in a former life)
Thanks for the info Pete. I thought they were T-5`s or something along that family.
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