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Unread 02-02-2013, 03:31 PM   #1
billybooster2
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1983 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cow Mountain, CA
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4.0 head on 258 plus efi wiring questions

I'm having nightmares wiring the alternator / starter / solenoid from the pdc of the yj loom! Here's where I am at;

I took an '83 4.2 and put a 93 yj wrangler head and efi hardware together. All is good there.... I took the loom, pdc and bulkhead connector and laid it on my engine. I am not changing the bulkhead connector nor am I using it to wire inside the vehicle.I started thinning what I thought I didn't need. I have got this far;

1. Engine is on its motor mounts and attached to tranny
2. Original 4.2 Starter is in and connected to one side of the original solenoid relay
3. The other side of the original stater relay has a fusible link from the alternator and a wire to the positive terminal of the battery.
4. At at the same +ve battery post is a thick red wire from the bulkhead connector that is the main power in to the dash of old


5. The main connectors (MAP, TPS, camshaft, crankshaft etc) are installed no problem
b) the trouble spots are alternator hook up, use of ( or not) the PDC, linking the original starter solenoid into the system somehow or ignoring it in favor of the wiring in the PDC but I can't figure out that either!
c) There were a couple of wires that came from the bulkhead that connected to the solenoid and then onto the old coil. Where do they go?

So there's my dilemna -

I have the FSM for both but cannot see how to get it all together in the original alternator / original solenoid / original starter.

Anyone got ideas?

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Unread 02-02-2013, 03:47 PM   #2
lakeobum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybooster2 View Post
I'm having nightmares wiring the alternator / starter / solenoid from the pdc of the yj loom! Here's where I am at;

I took an '83 4.2 and put a 93 yj wrangler head and efi hardware together. All is good there.... I took the loom, pdc and bulkhead connector and laid it on my engine. I am not changing the bulkhead connector nor am I using it to wire inside the vehicle.I started thinning what I thought I didn't need. I have got this far;

1. Engine is on its motor mounts and attached to tranny
2. Original 4.2 Starter is in and connected to one side of the original solenoid relay
3. The other side of the original stater relay has a fusible link from the alternator and a wire to the positive terminal of the battery.
4. At at the same +ve battery post is a thick red wire from the bulkhead connector that is the main power in to the dash of old


5. The main connectors (MAP, TPS, camshaft, crankshaft etc) are installed no problem
b) the trouble spots are alternator hook up, use of ( or not) the PDC, linking the original starter solenoid into the system somehow or ignoring it in favor of the wiring in the PDC but I can't figure out that either!
c) There were a couple of wires that came from the bulkhead that connected to the solenoid and then onto the old coil. Where do they go?

So there's my dilemna -

I have the FSM for both but cannot see how to get it all together in the original alternator / original solenoid / original starter.

Anyone got ideas?
Does the starter engage?
I just did this this winter. The pdc has a relay that becomes your solenoid for the starter. I suppose it could be done either way. I did away with teh original harness on my 89 yj, but essentially you need to make sure you have battery + to the starter. then find the key start wire and run it to your relay which unless you changed it you probably already have.
Just a question, did you bypass tne nuetral safety in the new system?
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Unread 02-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #3
billybooster2
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Didnt touch neutral safety switch. As for the pdc relay, its in there but i havent hooked it up at all. So o i have not connected pdc at all yet. So i know i wont get fuel delivered!

As for the starter, when i turn key, the solenoid clicks on and stays on.
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Unread 02-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #4
lakeobum
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so what is it that you are trying to figure out?
working on replacing my exhaust manifold from this same project. i bought a used one when gathering parts. Its cracked I should have know better. anyway ill check back in a few and try to help anya i can, im no expert, but managed to get mine going with it. Its worth teh trouble.
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Unread 02-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #5
billybooster2
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Well... two things;

1. Starter; I have the original 4.2 starter connected to the old original solenoid. I have the light blue original wire from the bulkhead connected to one of the smaller posts that in turn is connected with rubber to a red wire on the adjacent post that goes back to the thick red wire out of the bulkhead! The solenoid has two posts, one for the battery and alternator connection, the other goes to the starter. That seems like it used to be. Additionally there were two splices on each of the smaller blue and red wires that lead to the old coil. When I turn the key to on - not crank but just on - it engages the solenoid permanently. The solenoid shouldnt engage permanently! That would engage the starter permanently right? If I'm right so far, then the wiring is off at this point alone....if it is supposed to 'click on' permanently, I'd never hear it before od that ... let's start there.! Is my wiring so far ok in that area alone....
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Unread 02-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #6
lakeobum
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No. The solenoid should only get engaged or click when the key is in the start position. NOT the on position. somehow you are giving the solenoid power in the keep on position, yes this would run starter all the time ruining it and lots of other things. I would start there. Big red wire from battery to solenoid big stud, the other big stud is big red to starter. One of the two small studs on the solenoid is where you hook your "hot when in the start only position" wire. not sure of color, mine is a YJ with a different relay setup.
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Unread 02-02-2013, 05:48 PM   #7
billybooster2
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SO I have that figured.... I can get it to work.... By switching the light blue to the other pole. So on 'start', the spring loaded key action, I get solenoid engagement and therefore starter engagement. The alternator is wired as it used to be - so nothing new there - I MIGHT need the little widget on one of the wires to stop it running on. A resistor I believe .. I can get one from Radioshack nearer the time!

Next is knowing about the fuel pump relay. I believe it should be on when key is on 'acc' as well as 'run' and 'start'. If that is the case and that's ALL it needs, I only need ONE relay and none of the PDC. Is that right? I seem to recall people using two relays....maybe one was starter?

Assuming we get the fuel relay onit's own, isolated... power in, signal in and two others..... how does the ECM get power? is it a red/white tracer wire?
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Unread 02-02-2013, 06:32 PM   #8
lakeobum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybooster2 View Post
SO I have that figured.... I can get it to work.... By switching the light blue to the other pole. So on 'start', the spring loaded key action, I get solenoid engagement and therefore starter engagement. The alternator is wired as it used to be - so nothing new there - I MIGHT need the little widget on one of the wires to stop it running on. A resistor I believe .. I can get one from Radioshack nearer the time!

Next is knowing about the fuel pump relay. I believe it should be on when key is on 'acc' as well as 'run' and 'start'. If that is the case and that's ALL it needs, I only need ONE relay and none of the PDC. Is that right? I seem to recall people using two relays....maybe one was starter?

Assuming we get the fuel relay onit's own, isolated... power in, signal in and two others..... how does the ECM get power? is it a red/white tracer wire?
sounds like you had teh two small wires backwards???
the resistor goes in the field wire mine was brown i think, the small plug kind of on the side of the alt. the other one is battery +.
all of my relays were left in the pdc and i think 3 are used, start, fuel pump and shut down relay. somehow i think the fuel pump relay runs through the shut down relay. I really cant help much there because i used the pdc and all of the donor (92 wrangler) harness. Lots of info on this forum. search for five wires to fire and you will find a ton of info. Also this guy had a post on this forum and here:
http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/vi...c.php?f=6&t=24
It was a huge help to my project, thanks jeep-power, I dont rember his name on here, but i went back to it countless times.
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Unread 02-02-2013, 07:11 PM   #9
billybooster2
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So I have the PDC completely cut away from the harness! In a fit of anger I took chopeers to it and made a few connections as I went as follows;

I have a fuel pump relay set up completely with the same 4 wires from the bottom of the PDC. The only thin that is missing is a fused power source which I can add tomorrow.

The starter I can engage the way it is set up right now and it will disengage correctly with the key. I think I only have TWO more questions before I am ready to turn the key;

How does the PCM get power - I believe it is a red/white wire that was plugged into the auto cut off relay. I have removed that relay/circuit so do I assume that the red/white connects directly to battery 12V / keyed 12V? Secondly is the alternator feedback to the pcm - is it necessary? And if so, there are essentially TWO wires that go into the side of my alternator, one of which loops around to the post on the back of it. On the wiring harness, there is a green and a green/orange thick wire pair that is attached to a rubbery square thing! I am assuming that the rubbery square thing does what the inside of my older alternator does - resistor maybe? So I have a wire that connects to the post that goes into a connector that comes out and goes to an exciter wire - thin and black from the old wiring. How can I 'match' the new green and green/orange without that squarish rubbery field wire thing to the old wiring and make this part of my issue go away?
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Unread 02-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #10
lakeobum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybooster2 View Post
So I have the PDC completely cut away from the harness! In a fit of anger I took chopeers to it and made a few connections as I went as follows;

I have a fuel pump relay set up completely with the same 4 wires from the bottom of the PDC. The only thin that is missing is a fused power source which I can add tomorrow.

The starter I can engage the way it is set up right now and it will disengage correctly with the key. I think I only have TWO more questions before I am ready to turn the key;

How does the PCM get power - I believe it is a red/white wire that was plugged into the auto cut off relay. I have removed that relay/circuit so do I assume that the red/white connects directly to battery 12V / keyed 12V? Secondly is the alternator feedback to the pcm - is it necessary? And if so, there are essentially TWO wires that go into the side of my alternator, one of which loops around to the post on the back of it. On the wiring harness, there is a green and a green/orange thick wire pair that is attached to a rubbery square thing! I am assuming that the rubbery square thing does what the inside of my older alternator does - resistor maybe? So I have a wire that connects to the post that goes into a connector that comes out and goes to an exciter wire - thin and black from the old wiring. How can I 'match' the new green and green/orange without that squarish rubbery field wire thing to the old wiring and make this part of my issue go away?
on my 92 pcm it is a pink/yellow wire to feed power to the pcm it is always hot. From what ive read they are not all the same, you should google and find the pinout for your pcm, hook up the wrong one and you could fry the computer. you do not have to have alternator feedback to the pcm unless you hook up the check engine light. i did so i could see codes.
Not sure what you are talking about the square rubbery thing is, got pics?
gonna have a few beers and go to bed, ill check in tomorrow. good luck.
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Unread 02-03-2013, 09:33 AM   #11
billybooster2
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The wiring diagram I have shows PIN 3 on th ECM as BATTERY and has a red/white wire going to the auto shutdown relay and then out to the fuel pump relay. Having chopped out the auto shut down, it can go straight to the fuel pump relay and then on to a fused power source - in other words, in reverse, the battery hot comes in from a fused source into the fuel pump relay and out to the pcm. So that takes care of pcm power.

If I don't have to run the alternator through the pcm, and I can hook it up as it used to be, then I need to 'hide' the funky wires that are intended to connect to the alternator - they are green (from PCM) and green/orange. BUT that means two things I think....

1. There are three connectors for the newer non voltage regulated alternator. B+ (BAT), a green and a green with orange stripe. I believe the green goes to PIN 20, marked 'ALTERNATOR IND'.

2. I believe the green with orange is sent 'from' the pcm and goes to all the injectors and alternator to decide how long to inject for in an over/undercharged situation and is on PIN 67 and is marked "ASD BATTERY SENS". It is also connected to one of the field sensing points on the alternator. which in turn seems to go to the Coil as well!

So I have read that putting a resistor across the two field wires tricks the computer into thinking the alternator is there.

I know my alternator will work as it is set up but if I simply do not connect the green or green orange to the wiring, other than throwing codes, will it make a difference?








I have the VSS hooked up, all other cam / crank / map / o2 (no exhaust to put it in but i have it) / tps / air intake connected.

Dare I try to start?
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Unread 02-03-2013, 10:46 AM   #12
lakeobum
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love to know how it comes out.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 06:41 AM   #13
billybooster2
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Changed alternator to a junkyard 1990 dakota. Didt get solution using older alt. it was 20$.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 08:36 AM   #14
Que89YJ
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Ma n you have made it way more difficult then it needed to be! 6 wires at the fire wall would have made the New engine harness work. Now I have no idea what kind of mess you are in. The ASD relay controlls the input feed to the fuel pump for the ecu. IDK how you have everything wired but I would have a fire extinguisher ready. Pins 3 and 9 on the ecu are power. If I were you though, I would consider getting another harness and do it right. The alternator fault was there because it was internally regulated and the ecu on the new MPFI could load compensate. You could have done a scrapyard swap to the new alternator. Seriously, some of the things you have done are going to be an issue in a very very bad way. I wish you luck.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 09:32 AM   #15
billybooster2
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1983 CJ8 
 
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I have the all the pcm wires traced and aattached to their respective relays or sensors.

I have added a 4 pin brake switch to help with deceleration PCM data

I have TWO relays - ASD and Fuel

Fuses are going in now

I have done away with the old coil and alternator stuff

I am not anticipating a fire yet!
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