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Unread 05-22-2011, 06:01 AM   #1
Old4X
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As mentioned, drop the pan and plastiguage the mains and rods. If clearances are 3 thousandths or less, your problem is the cam bearings.

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Unread 05-22-2011, 06:02 AM   #2
Peter Nuss
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Maybe a little late but, did you check your cam bearings? Were they replaced? What clearances are you running on the mains and rods? Did you plasticgauge them? You have really low oil pressure, that's usaully a clearance issue. If you can not answer these questions, you might want to take it apart and check all that stuff. Most shops do not hot tank any more, they use super heated water with high pressure nozzles to clean everything. Hot tanking can not be done on aluminum and they don't want two systems for the same job with EPA regs messing with them. Good luck on your project.
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Unread 05-22-2011, 07:25 PM   #3
johnnykind
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258 experts I need help, new motor no oil pressure

hey everybody,
I hope someone out there can help me with this one !!!

I have a new (rebuilt) 258 in my 87 wrangler with maybe 5-10psi of oil pressure at idle and 15-psi at 2000 rpm, machine shop did terrible work on my block looked like it just came out of someones backyard when I got it back from ARRINGDALES in hesperia

I took it back to the guy and told him I was not satisfied with the way it looked after spending 1300 bucks, he gave me some line of BS about all the blocks looking that way when they come out of the hot tank...whatever so I took the ugly beast home, and got busy cleaning it up...I did not run a bore brush through the oil galleys like I should have but I blew compressed air through and it seemed to come out OK everywhere, so long story short I get the motor put together and put in the jeep and it starts right up sounds great...but 0psi oil pressure, I had a problem with the gauge before the build so I didnt think much of it,

went and got a new mechanical gauge the next day same thing 0-5psi at idle 10-15psi at 2000rmp...hot or cold doesn't change...so just in-case I got a bad gauge I went and got another one an electric one this time with new sending unit... Still the same very low readings...so after all the problems with the machine shop, I thought maybe they gave me a BUM oil pump so $120.00 later I had a new oil pump and pan gasket... primed the system, started the motor same thing low pressure...5-10psi

Weird thing is it doesnt really make any noise after warm up theres a slight ticking sound I believe thats common in the 258...

So I pulled off the valve cover and it is slightly wet in there but not enough so I started the engine and watched the oil flow it seems to be coming out of 3 push rods near the firewall but not out of the rest near the front of the engine ???? looks like all the lifters are good and wet its just not making it up through the push rods pulled them off to make sure their clean and I could see through all of them so that's not the problem

does this sound like some kind of galley blockage or have I possibly spun a cam bearing and the oil is not making it to the top end ??? anyone else ever have this problem ???

DOES ANYONE HAVE A DIAGRAM OF THE OIL FLOW FOR THE 258???
does it go from the pump to the filter to the sensor then to the cam and top-end???

other than clogged passageway, spun cam bearing, bad oil pump, can anyone think of anything else that would cause this condition...

B.T.W. I am using 10w30 oil an napa gold filter, and have changed the oil and filter twice since installing the motor a week ago, I am going to try Rotella 15-40 next and see if that helps some... I am at the end of my idea list... I need some help or I will have to pull this dang motor and start from scratch again!!!!

Any help will be greatly appreciated
John...
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Unread 05-22-2011, 08:24 PM   #4
4LarXedo4
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well assuming the oil level is full, what are you using to prime the system? does the gauge read a higher psi when your priming?

Also i've dealt with many engine builds in my past with sending the block and other parts to our machinist for hot tanking etc. and they come back looking like it was just machined brand new from the factory.
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Unread 05-22-2011, 08:44 PM   #5
Peter Nuss
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Maybe a little late but, did you check your cam bearings? Were they replaced? What clearances are you running on the mains and rods? Did you plasticgauge them? You have really low oil pressure, that's usaully a clearance issue. If you can not answer these questions, you might want to take it apart and check all that stuff. Most shops do not hot tank any more, they use super heated water with high pressure nozzles to clean everything. Hot tanking can not be done on aluminum and they don't want two systems for the same job with EPA regs messing with them. Good luck on your project.
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Unread 05-22-2011, 11:15 PM   #6
johnnykind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4LarXedo4 View Post
well assuming the oil level is full, what are you using to prime the system? does the gauge read a higher psi when your priming?

Also i've dealt with many engine builds in my past with sending the block and other parts to our machinist for hot tanking etc. and they come back looking like it was just machined brand new from the factory.

I'm using the cut off screwdriver trick to prime the motor seems to work well I can definitely feel resistance on the drill ...my drill is only 1200rpm but that should be plenty fast enough to prime...and the gauge reads the same during prime as it does when the motor is running at idle...I thought the motor should have come back better looking too... I don't build many motors but I have 20+ years of automotive experience, I have sent many customers motors to the shop and they come back sparkling....not mine looked like someone pulled it out of a bucket of rusty water when I got it back...
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Unread 05-22-2011, 11:28 PM   #7
4LarXedo4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnykind

I'm using the cut off screwdriver trick to prime the motor seems to work well I can definitely feel resistance on the drill ...my drill is only 1200rpm but that should be plenty fast enough to prime...and the gauge reads the same during prime as it does when the motor is running at idle...I thought the motor should have come back better looking too... I don't build many motors but I have 20+ years of automotive experience, I have sent many customers motors to the shop and they come back sparkling....not mine looked like someone pulled it out of a bucket of rusty water when I got it back...
Your basic battery pack drill should easily achieve about 60psi. So with that if the oil pressure is still low next thing to look into is your bearing and journal clearances as previously mentioned. Was anything machined down with your rebuild?
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Unread 05-22-2011, 11:34 PM   #8
johnnykind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nuss View Post
Maybe a little late but, did you check your cam bearings? Were they replaced? What clearances are you running on the mains and rods? Did you plasticgauge them? You have really low oil pressure, that's usaully a clearance issue. If you can not answer these questions, you might want to take it apart and check all that stuff. Most shops do not hot tank any more, they use super heated water with high pressure nozzles to clean everything. Hot tanking can not be done on aluminum and they don't want two systems for the same job with EPA regs messing with them. Good luck on your project.


Yes the cam bearings are brand new they were installed by the machine shop...
I forgot to look and see if they were lined up correctly but I did notice the machinist scared one of them pretty good while putting it in...I didnt know much about this machine shop, some friends took a 454 block over there and it came back ok... looked alot better than mine did when I got it back...

I did not use a plasti gauge ... because I trusted the machine shop to give me the right parts...because its there job to know this S...t...
the crank was turned .10 so I got .10 over bearings, the rods were also done .10 over to match...

yeah that's what they guy at the shop told me that their not allowed to have a REAL hot tank in Cali. anymore...But they still charged me for it

and it was covered with some nasty rusty looking residue he said it was left over from the "HOT TANK" then when I complained about the way it looked he tried to charge me more money to take it back in the shop and blow the Crap off of it with an air compressor!!!

What ever happened to going the extra mile for your customers !!!!
or just plain old pride in your work!!!!
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Unread 05-22-2011, 11:55 PM   #9
johnnykind
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Here's what the top of the block looked like when I got it back from ARRINGDALES
2011-04-15_13-13-01_690.jpg  
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Unread 05-23-2011, 05:44 AM   #10
GAT72991
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I've never had anything come back from the machine shop at anything less than almost freakin spotless.....just from the sounds of how your block looked they seem slack, so i'd be a little nervous at how they treated your engine...may have just thrown your bearings in and went no farther than that. I'm assuming you used a new cam? You installed a new oil pump, so sounds like a clearance issue to me somewhere...as much as you dont want to hear it i would pull the engine out, tear it down, and do a clearance check on the bearings with plastigauge. I personally would have taken it back to the machine shop if one of the bearings was scarred and someone would have got an earful and i would have gotten a new set of cam bearings or i'd be contacting the BBB...something as critical as bearings and bearing clearance there is no room for error, IMHO, and if i paid them to install them, it wouldnt leave their shop until it was done correctly. Just my .02

EDIT: I know you previously stated you have 20+ years automotive experience, and im not trying to discredit you in any way, but are you sure it's full of oil? Yes, that's usually a given, but i myself have forgotten things in the midst of a project or job; you know, something like doing a simple oil change and spinning your oil filter on nice and handtight, putting all 6 quarts of oil in, dumping 4 or so on the ground in a few seconds when the engine is first cranked because the idiot at the parts store gave you the wrong filter, only because you couldnt find the part number needed, so he INSISTED that this other brand filter with a different part number WAS IN FACT the one needed for your engine, and because it was hand tight you didnt think to check with your hand or look with a flashlight for a gap between the filter and oil filter boss.....ask me how i know lol
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Unread 05-23-2011, 03:50 PM   #11
johnnykind
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it is definitely full of oil 3 times now with 3 different oils and filters...thought of that too, seems like I check it ever couple of hours just make sure lol....I have been going through all the possibility's one at a time and I am left with only one option, seems to be a clearance issue or I have a cam bearing that's not installed right...either way looks like I will be pulling this darn motor again
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Unread 05-23-2011, 05:07 PM   #12
mightybg
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just to add my , I have seen a problem similar to this on one of those TV hotrod shows. Since you had the block machined I would assume the oil pump and pick-up was removed. if the pick-up did not get installed with the same clearances to the oil pan it may cause an issue with the oil pump suction. I am sure there is a spec somewhere on the clearance but the way they measured it was using a straight edge on the oil pick-up and measuring from there to the block surface and then use a straight edge across the oil pan and check from there to the bottom of the pan where the oil pick-up is located. I maybe way off but it is possible.
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Unread 05-23-2011, 06:30 PM   #13
MJMPC
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I got a sbc back from the machine shop one time with low oil pressure. They didnt linethe hole up with the oil passage on number one cam bearing.
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Unread 05-24-2011, 02:33 PM   #14
johnnykind
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Thanks for the help everybody, We are looking at the cam bearings also... in the pics I took after it got back from the shop it looks like the bearings were lined up pretty close.....but upon further review of those pics it looks like I may have put the darn thrust bearing in the wrong place I believe we stuck it in the #1 journal and it appears that it is supposed go on the #3 instead...Always make sure you take pics, they may be very important later...

So does any know if the trust bearing in the wrong place would cause low oil pressure????
so far that seems to be the only problem we can find ???
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Unread 05-24-2011, 02:35 PM   #15
johnnykind
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here is a pic of where it got installed instead of where it should be ...
2011-04-23_13-04-54_14.jpg  
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low oil pressure , new jeep help , oil pump , problem

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