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Unread 07-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #31
Hosejockey61
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2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aurora, CO
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Hi guys,

Sorry for almost a 30 day lapse. My son and I couldn't get schedules to line up until now. Anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the fuel pump. As with most Jeep owners, it's those little surprises that you find that help figure things out.

We dropped the tank with no problems. I did notice on the skid plate "protecting" the tank, that it had a slight dent/damage. I pulled the fuel pump out to check its condition and found that it had received trauma from that dent in the skid plate. Not sure what the PO had hit, but it was perfect to damage the fuel pump. The pictures show how the fuel pump was bent/crushed with an almost perfect upward force. The pictures show the bend in the pump and how connections were badly damaged.

I'm assuming that my earlier fuel pressure tests wouldn't hold vaccuum after turning the engine off due to the fact that the nipple on top of the pump was forced through breaking the connection.

Now, the fuel tank (plastic) does have a pushed in area where it was struck. It has not returned to normal shape. My guess is that this will prevent me from installing a new fuel pump properly. Is there a way to get it back to normal without breaking it?

Let me know what you guys think....

Anyway, thanks for the help and I'll post more when it is complete.











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Unread 07-20-2012, 08:15 PM   #32
Zombieislander
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rhine, Ga
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Hey I'm coming in late on this post but I had the same issue with my 91 YJ. I tried everything and finally fixed my problem with a new fuel sending unit and pump. Good luck.
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Unread 07-20-2012, 08:43 PM   #33
HandsOn
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Can you reach in with some kind of probe (like a wooden dowel) and push the dent back out? If not, maybe the new pump assembly can be bent in the same general orientation without breaking the new lines. Not sure about that, as I haven't held one in my hand and tried it, but it might be an option. Since the tank is plastic, it may or may not split (it didn't when it got hit, right?), but if it does when you push it back out, it should be able to be patched too i would think. Miracles through chemistry are a wonderful thing. Does the skid plate have dimples to hold it way from the bottom of the tank? Or do they rest together completely? If no dimples, then maybe some sort of padded stand-offs can be fabbed up and the mounts compensated for to make it less likely to do the same thing in the future. You might lose an inch of ground clearance, but it seems like protecting this area would be a good thing. Paul
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Unread 07-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #34
notmyj
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1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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One thing that doesn't look right is the short rubber hose connected to the pump. It looks like it is swelled. I would guess this due to the wrong hose being used as it appears to have been replaced as the factory didnt use worm clamps like the ones your pic shows. You see there is a HUGE difference in fuel hose and submersible fuel hose. Standard fuel hose can NOT be submerssed as only the inside is resistant to fuel. You need to get your hands on the right fuel hose before it goes back together.

The nipple that apears to broken through the top needs to be repaired or the entire unit needs to be replaced as it will be a leak. As for the fuel tank, you should be able to pop it back down like a dent in a door.
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Unread 07-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #35
Hosejockey61
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The swelling you see is the steel line being bent causing the hose to push out...pretty jacked up.

What are my options for resecuring that nipple? Is JB weld an option? (isn't it always? lol)
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Unread 07-23-2012, 11:15 AM   #36
Que89YJ
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Horsejockey if you need to get a replacement unit try MTS. They have reasonable prices and come highly recommended from the #1 Jeep guy here Max. Hope things are well with you. I know things are rough in your area right now.
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Unread 07-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #37
scottsilvia82
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1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Kingsland, GA
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OK lets look at something else. You are on track with the fuel. Let talk AIR! Throttle bodies tend to get build up and starting can be hard. Remove the hose between the throttle body and air cleaner and tell me if it is all black in side the throttle body. Make sure you open the throttle to look in side. Now if this is all gummed up it is time to purchase TB cleaner, TB gasket, IAC casket and pull the TB apart and clean, clean, clean. This post is for a TJ but will help you understand. I had the same issue and it was a dirty TB. I would also continue to look at the fuel pump. Purchase a gauge to check the PSI at the fuel rail. Parts stores usually have them for sale or rent! Last change that filter LOL!! rust and fuel don't MIX!
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Unread 07-23-2012, 10:33 PM   #38
scottsilvia82
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/q...-body-1262267/

Sorry forgot the link to the forum. It will help even if it is not the primary issue.
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Unread 07-23-2012, 10:35 PM   #39
scottsilvia82
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By the way JB weld and gas no no! Replacement is a sure thing. If you chose the cheaper route make sure it is compatible with gas!
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Unread 07-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #40
Hosejockey61
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OK this should be the final post. I really hope this thread helps others to think and solve their problems. If not for trouble shooting and the help of this forum, this jeep might very well have ended in the shop. I think that the great thing about this forum isn't being able to search for you issue, but giving your feedback so others can learn from your experience.

So after discovering that the sending unit/pump assembly sustained some damage, I had to decide whether replacing or repairing the assembly was the right choice. Well, to be honest, replacing it would have been the "right" choice since it already had 200k miles on it. However, not missing an opportunity to teach my kid some "experience", we decided to try and repair it just to see if we could!

We tested the pump by hooking it up to the battery for a short test....worked fine. As far as the fuel line being separated from the top plate (see previous post for pics), we decided to try JB weld. It set up great and seems to be pretty solid. We put the pump back in the tank and re-assembled the entire fuel system and got it bolted back up into place. I go to turn the key on and the sweet sound was missing....no sound of the fuel pump prime. Naturally the Jeep doesn't start. After a few cuss words we tore it all back down. We pulled the pump back out and started to trouble shoot.

After trying several different wiring configurations, I couldn't get it to work. I know the PO had spliced some wires in the fuel rail, so I decided to run those down to make sure all was ok. Low and behold a wire had corroed and broke in half. After repairing that, the pump STILL wouldn't work correctly. I was at my wits end before I finally figured out that the metal tab needed to be attached to the fuel line to allow it to properly ground. (See picture) There was such a small gap that I almost didn't figure it out.

With that being taken care of (yes, vice gripped to make contact and JB welded), I decided to test it and everything finally worked. The best part is, that broken wire was my ground issue with my fuel gauge not working...it works now

We put it all back together again and gave it a shot. It started faster than I thought without having fuel primed. It runs GREAT now. The long start issue is now gone... You have no idea how happy that makes me!

If I have any problems with the JB weld holding up, I will post back. The website states that once it sets up it is unnaffected by gasoline....time will tell.

Thanks for all of the input.






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Unread 07-23-2012, 11:16 PM   #41
Hosejockey61
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And yes Que....been really bad around here.

My handle is hosejockey not horsejockey.....slang for a firefighter. I was on duty that night and listened to it unfold live on the radio....realllllly sad story. Unbelievable that somebody could do that (theater massacre).
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Unread 07-23-2012, 11:21 PM   #42
Hosejockey61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsilvia82 View Post
By the way JB weld and gas no no! Replacement is a sure thing. If you chose the cheaper route make sure it is compatible with gas!
The JB Weld website states this for the JB Stick:

"When fully cured, J-B Weld is completely resistant to water, gasoline, and about every other petroleum product or automotive chemical. For wet-surface or submerged water or gasoline repairs, see our J-B Stik or Waterweld product information."

Now I know resistant doesn't equal proof, however, this was an exercise in working through troubleshooting and repairs. With 200k miles on that assembly unit I would expect it to fail soon anyway. My son and I both agreed that next time we need to replace it, it will be a 45 minute job now that we've been through waht we have lol. That is good experience when out on the trail!

Hey Scott, read the whole thread....already been down the road of fuel pressure and replacing the filter! The throttle body is next on our list to do though!
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Unread 07-24-2012, 08:07 AM   #43
scottsilvia82
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1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Kingsland, GA
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I will tell you JB weld did not work for me on gas!

Let me know if you have questions with the throttle body! I just did my rig and it works. That does not mean one of the sensors are not bad.

Is this a 4.0?
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Unread 07-24-2012, 08:50 AM   #44
Hosejockey61
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Location: Aurora, CO
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Since I got the fuel pump "fixed", the jeep runs great. All of my previous issues are gone. We will clean the TB next just because it needs it. I still want to re pressure check the fuel rail just out of curiosity.
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Unread 07-24-2012, 11:08 AM   #45
Que89YJ
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Sorry about messing up the name. Spell check on the cell. Glad its fixed.
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