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Unread 02-16-2010, 02:06 PM   #61
asknight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-birdJunkie View Post
LOL...yeah, it'd be great for the consumer. Too bad the consumer is too stupid to realize it. The XJ and KJ were both available as diesels. Not many of those were built for sale in the US. The Isuzu Trooper had a diesel variant...not many were sold. All of those, on paper, are better than their gas variants.
Chrysler probably doesn't think it's worth the trouble to sell them here. And they're probably right.
How is the consumer too stupid to realize it? Chrysler estimated the sale of 5,000 diesel Libertys and ended up having to keep production going and ended up selling about 10,000. Many consumers like me were absolutely enthralled that they were releasing diesels... but Chrysler never released a diesel in the vehicle of my choice. The Wrangler. That's what I was, and continue to wait on.

Some could say that Chrysler was too stupid to realize the market by releasing their diesels in vehicles aimed at the soccer mom, suburban mom, etc (Liberty) markets instead of the more "unrefined rough and tough" Wrangler customer.

Anyway, the consumers still blew their forecast all to hell and demanded double the numbers of expected diesels.

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Unread 02-16-2010, 02:36 PM   #62
T-birdJunkie
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10,000 is not a big number. Double of 5,000 is only 5,000 more. Ford, for example, couldn't give a crap if they sold an extra 5,000 Focii, because it would not be a significant leap.

Now, let's get this straight.
You're trying to tell ThunderbirdJunkie that 99% of Jeeps - Liberty, Wrangler, Patriot/Compass, Grand Cherokee, et al - are not sold to the soccer mom/urban cruiser type? PUH-LEESE. Just because there is a larger number of enthusiasts in the market for a JK rather than a KK/WK doesn't mean that nearly every single JK that's seen on the roads isn't occupied by some uppity yuppie that bought it because it's trendy and makes him/her look rugged/fun. Every single JK in ThunderbirdJunkie's college parking lot, for example, is driven by a girl. No exceptions.
You're giving the consumer too much credit.
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Unread 02-16-2010, 03:40 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by JeffinWesternWA View Post
Diesels STILL = Soot, I beleive high NOX levels, never can pass the CA emissions that also rule the NW and NE states. Plus, w/ low sales volume cuz, most Jeeps are drivers by gas users. A diesel option for $4K won't sell, in this economy, "maybe" when Wrangler gets a redo and Pentastar or whatever motors are available ('11 maybe , '12, '13 likely). A diesel w/ a standard IS a no go, the emissions of a diesle, especially at deaccel would be off teh stringent charts of tody's mandates, it's pretty simple. Now a NAT GAS powered car, in fact MNAY would make sense and be CHEAP to fuel foreveer and we'd send NO oney to countries that hate us! rant over....
You're kidding right? With the new particulate filters on all the diesels. A diesel doesn't put out any more than a gas engine. This is the reason the US hasn't had a diesel in anything other than medium duty and heavy duty trucks. People are always saying that because the put out black smoke they are bad for the environment. In fact, its just wasting a ton of fuel because people think its cool. A properly tuned diesel isn't going to have insane NOX levels. The industrial revolution already destroyed the atmosphere before this whole green thing started. Its not gonna get fixed instantly by not putting diesels in smaller vehicles. Also, look at the heavy duty market. Who makes the cleanest Heavy duty diesel engines? A little company based in Indiana called Cummins. Now if these things will pull a Cherokee on a trailer sign me up for one!
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Unread 02-16-2010, 04:41 PM   #64
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Lets face it, most consumers are pretty stupid. If they werent, no one would lease a car unless it was for fleet or commercial use, Toyota wouldnt have this bogus reputation as being the 'best car company', hybrids and electric cars wouldnt even be a consideration, and all these environmental and safety doodads mandated on our cars would be met with outrage.

I used to work at a dealership. People wont try to haggle price for anything, even though its a sure bet that you can walk out getting much more for your trade, and a better price on your purchase. Dealerships push 'no haggle pricing' all the time as a benefit to you. Its laughable! You can get that anywhere: Just pay the sticker price without arguing! I saw people trade perfectly maintained cherokees on dodge neons and walk out with a $400+ monthly payment over 5 years.

I can go on and on all day about how bad of choices people make. The average consumer is MOST DEFINITELY stupid.
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Unread 02-16-2010, 04:46 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by T-birdJunkie View Post
10,000 is not a big number. Double of 5,000 is only 5,000 more. Ford, for example, couldn't give a crap if they sold an extra 5,000 Focii, because it would not be a significant leap.

Now, let's get this straight.
You're trying to tell ThunderbirdJunkie that 99% of Jeeps - Liberty, Wrangler, Patriot/Compass, Grand Cherokee, et al - are not sold to the soccer mom/urban cruiser type? PUH-LEESE. Just because there is a larger number of enthusiasts in the market for a JK rather than a KK/WK doesn't mean that nearly every single JK that's seen on the roads isn't occupied by some uppity yuppie that bought it because it's trendy and makes him/her look rugged/fun. Every single JK in ThunderbirdJunkie's college parking lot, for example, is driven by a girl. No exceptions.
You're giving the consumer too much credit.
The Wrangler is probably what he means. Yeah, they get posers and yuppies buying them, but compared to every other SUV made which is driving by 95% yuppies at least, its a more enthusiast-driven vehicle. The GC, Liberty, and commander DO get lifted and used offroad occaisonally at least. But whens the last time you saw a bone stock Wrangler that never sees dirt? Rarely. On the other hand, when was the last time you saw an explorer or trailblazer that wasnt a suburban grocery getter? Probably never.
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Unread 02-16-2010, 04:59 PM   #66
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But whens the last time you saw a bone stock Wrangler that never sees dirt?
All the time. See a lot of lifted ones that never see dirt, too.
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Unread 02-16-2010, 09:08 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by T-birdJunkie View Post
All the time. See a lot of lifted ones that never see dirt, too.

Haha, thats what I was thinking! I see plenty of lifted rigs built to the hilt that have never seen the trail. Its kinda sad but maybe one day they can use all their doo-dads for what they are made for.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 07:40 PM   #68
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I read somethin different at AllPar.com

“Numerous” changes to “directly address” customer feedback, particularly that of off-roaders. Jeep Wrangler has been put forward as Jeep's halo car, and Jeep will be working hard to make it clearly superior to Toyota, Hummer, and Mahindra challengers. The 2011 Wrangler is due in the second or third quarter of 2010, and either the 2011 or 2012 will have a standard Pentastar V6 with a VM Motori diesel available offshore but not in the United States. The Scrambler pickup concept appears to be out of the picture
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Unread 02-17-2010, 07:57 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by USAFSahara View Post
I read somethin different at AllPar.com

“Numerous” changes to “directly address” customer feedback, particularly that of off-roaders. Jeep Wrangler has been put forward as Jeep's halo car, and Jeep will be working hard to make it clearly superior to Toyota, Hummer, and Mahindra challengers. The 2011 Wrangler is due in the second or third quarter of 2010, and either the 2011 or 2012 will have a standard Pentastar V6 with a VM Motori diesel available offshore but not in the United States. The Scrambler pickup concept appears to be out of the picture
That's the rub. They're misleading you. This is their "crawfish move" after they announced that a diesel was coming to the US.

The VM Motori diesel has been available overseas ever since the JK was introduced. There is absolutely nothing new planned for the JK other than the Pentastar V6. That alone doesn't make it any better marks in utility, off road capability, ruggedness, nor longevity. Typical marketing BS, IMO.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:10 PM   #70
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How will the Wrangler be 'clearly superior' with no pickup variant, V-8 or diesel options? The pentastar V-6 is a step up from the 3.8 Im fairly certain of that. But deciding to not produce things that are guaranteed hits is pure stupidity. Unless asknight is right about it all being B.S. which I hope he is. Denying this would be a good move, since if they announce a bunch of cool stuff now, it'll cost sales in the short run since people may delay purchases to hold out on the good stuff.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:13 PM   #71
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Would it be worth it to grab a crate diesel and have it dropped into a US JK? IIRC you can get around the emissions laws by having it registered differently.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:14 PM   #72
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Sorry, but there is nothing making ThunderbirdJunkie want a Wrangler. He wants a Scrambler with a V8 or a diesel with a stick. Period. He won't own an open-top Jeep with a 6 cylinder, it's just dumb, when it could easily be V8 powered. Absolutely no reason for it.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:14 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by BadAsh74 View Post
How will the Wrangler be 'clearly superior' with no pickup variant, V-8 or diesel options? The pentastar V-6 is a step up from the 3.8 Im fairly certain of that. But deciding to not produce things that are guaranteed hits is pure stupidity. Unless asknight is right about it all being B.S. which I hope he is. Denying this would be a good move, since if they announce a bunch of cool stuff now, it'll cost sales in the short run since people may delay purchases to hold out on the good stuff.


There would be a LOT of pissed off 2010 JK owners if they release a diesel in 2011. You have a good point though.

I just can't put this puzzle together. They've got a tested base out there with the VM 2.8L diesels. Why won't they let me buy one?
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:16 PM   #74
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There would be a LOT of pissed off 2010 JK owners if they release a diesel in 2011.
Who cares? Sucks for them
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Unread 02-17-2010, 11:16 PM   #75
asknight
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Sorry, but there is nothing making ThunderbirdJunkie want a Wrangler. He wants a Scrambler with a V8 or a diesel with a stick. Period. He won't own an open-top Jeep with a 6 cylinder, it's just dumb, when it could easily be V8 powered. Absolutely no reason for it.
If you're serious, there is an absolute cherry Scrambler here locally that has a GM 350 V8 in it. It looks to be in showroom condition. Asking price is $12,900.
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