Why not a 3.7L Diesel? - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Future Models & Prototype Discussion > Why not a 3.7L Diesel?

RIGID LED Light Blowout Sale - All Sizes, All Series, all USA Standard Chromoly Front Axle Shaft Kits with Dana 30 4Stainless Steel Door Hinge Pins

Reply
Unread 10-06-2011, 07:16 PM   #1
Condor1970
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 24
Why not a 3.7L Diesel?

As I read about the older 3.7L engine going to roost, now that the Pentastar will be taking its place, what I can't figure out is this.

If the 3.7L engine block is a cast iron block, and known for its long life, why hasn't Jeep figured out a way to reengineer this block into a 3.7L Diesel?

It doesn't have to be some twin-turbo'd super horsepower monster. Just a very reliable and efficent diesel with good low-end for the Jeep line.

Imagine the Jeep Liberty with a "relatively" affordable basic 3.7L diesel, that would probably yield upwards of 25-26mpg w/about 200HP.

Condor1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-06-2011, 10:31 PM   #2
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,783
First, a gas engine and a diesel engine share essentially no parts, and there would be absolutely zero cost savings.

Second, Fiat is a half owner of VM Motori, one of the largest diesel manufacturers in the world, and has multiple engines that would work great in a Jeep (Already do in Europe, and will in NA soon)

Third, the last time anybody tried turning a gasser into a diesel, we wound up with the '80s GM diesels-engines that were noted for being catastrophically bad because of it, and fouled North American market perception of diesel.

Fourth, the costs of engineering and certifying such an engine would cost astronomical amounts of money. Millions. Totally ridiculous when Fiat/Chrysler have ownership stakes and excellent history with two of the largest diesel manufacturers on the planet (Cummins and VM Motori).

You can't just cram some glow plugs into an engine and call it a diesel.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-07-2011, 01:27 AM   #3
Poncherello
Moderator
2010 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Paterson, New Jersey
Posts: 973
Agreed I think, GM used a 350 if not mistaken back then. In 2006-2007 J-Libs had Diesel but could meet up with the new emission regulations in 08'. Actually in Europe, I beleive in the Cherokees they are using the Mercedes 3.0 turbo CRD and they have modest horsepower and tons of torque and like mid-30's mpg.

I have a good friend of mine sells BMer's and they are going to really start pushing the Diesels in the US, I already seen advertisements on tv for the suvs.

I found this article from Mippin.com -it's European Car and Driver, of course since it's not a Land Rover or a Benz, the reviews will never be perfect. I just thought I would share.

For : Chunky American styling, powerful diesel engine, superb off-road ability
Against : Cheap looking interior, poor fuel economy, expensive compared to rivals
Launched this year, the latest version of the enormous Jeep Grand Cherokee has given the big off-roader a newfound sense of sophistication. Currently only one engine option is available, a 3.0-litre V6 diesel, although a high-performance SRT-8 V8 petrol version with over 500bhp will arrive in 2012. It features plenty of high-tech mechanical equipment too, with adjustable air suspension and a Quadra-Trac four-wheel drive system standard on all models. Despite its enormous proportions, the Jeep has just five seats, but with an incredibly generous standard kit list, it undercuts premium rivals like the Land Rover Discovery and Volkswagen Toureg by a significant margin.

Our pick: 3.0 CRD V6 Overland

Styling
With its trademark chrome 'seven bar' grille, it's hard to miss the Grand Cherokee on the road. The imposing squared-off looks have unmistakable roots in the US, and the top-spec Overland version comes with huge 20-inch alloy wheels as standard. It's not the most sophisticated looking machine, but certainly has a strong on-road presence. The interior leaves a little to be desired though. Although the main surfaces - dashboard, steering wheel, door inserts - are all covered in leather, some of the plastics feel cheap, and can't match the luxuriousness of even a base-spec Range Rover. However the flagship Overland spec does make up for this with an extensive equipment list that includes a 30GB music drive, a heated steering wheel, sat-nav and a panoramic sunroof.

Driving and Performance
The Grand Cherokee is currently offered with just one engine. Fortunately the 3.0-litre V6 diesel is a strong performer, with a healthy 237bhp and 549Nm of torque. That translates a benchmark 0-62mph sprint in just 7.9 seconds. There are drawbacks though, as this engine becomes strained and noisy at higher revs, and the five-speed automatic gearbox is slow to respond. Where it excels is off-road, where the commanding driving position, high ground clearance and air-suspension make it adept at tackling the toughest terrain. It's much more comfortable than its predecessor on road too, even on those enormous alloy wheels.

MPG and running costs
Things have definitely improved over the previous generation, but the Grand Cherokee is still unlikely to win any awards for helping the environment. The big V6 diesel returns 34mpg combined, and emits 214g/km of C02. Those are very competitive figures for a car of this type, but all other ancillaries, like tyres, servicing and filters, will be expensive. This is not a cheap car to run.

Practicality
As you'd expect, there's plenty of room in the back of the big Jeep. Filled to the roof, there's a massive 782-litres of luggage space, with a pair of extra storage bins on either side of the spare wheel beneath the boot floor. It comes fitted with a retractable tonneau cover as standard but, with this in place, the Jeep's boot can seem a bit shallow. Drop the back seats and that space rises to 1,554-litres – that's a little behind the Land Rover Discovery but still more than enough to meet most people's needs. Space in the back is also excellent, with reclining and ventilated rear seats on top-spec models. Parking can be an issue and there are occasions where the Jeep can feel a little unsuited to narrow UK roads.

Safety and reliability
All Jeeps come with a three-year or 60,000 mile warranty, and the new version shares a lot of its mechanical underpinnings with the new Mercedes M-Class, so buyers should have little to fear in terms of breakdowns. There were some recalls on the previous generation, but the new Grand Cherokee is much improved, inside and out. Although Euro NCAP are yet to crash test it, the Jeep is likely to perform well – the old car managed a four-star rating.



Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...#ixzz1a4vAzDwe
Poncherello is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-08-2011, 04:22 PM   #4
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncherello View Post
Actually in Europe, I beleive in the Cherokees they are using the Mercedes 3.0 turbo CRD and they have modest horsepower and tons of torque and like mid-30's mpg.
The current Grand Cherokee uses a 3.0L VM Motori diesel, the Wrangler and Liberty (Cherokee overseas) use a newer version of the 2.8L VM Motori that was over here briefly in the first-gen Liberty. The Patriot and Compass use a 2.2L Volkswagen diesel overseas, but their replacement(s) will be using small Fiat diesels.

The WK used the 3.0L Mercedes engine, albeit detuned.

The engines in the Grand Cherokee, Wrangler and Liberty are good for a bit under 250 HP each, but come in at around 400 ft/lbs of torque and return high 20's in mixed driving (By American standards, Euro standards are looser and done in Imperial gallons, which are larger than American gallons, which is how they seem to have insane mileage figures)

The Liberty and Patriot/Compass replacements are going to be coming with diesels, so expect the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee to show up with diesels around the same time period. Not right away, but soon.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-09-2011, 10:37 PM   #5
Poncherello
Moderator
2010 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Paterson, New Jersey
Posts: 973
One can only dream; but what would be a nice would be a inexpensive Clean Diesel conversion upgrade that could also entail a tax break LOL. Instead, our government wants us to buy Priuses and help keep Toyota rich.. LOL
Poncherello is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #6
Ungerer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Glenden, Queensland
Posts: 698
V8 diesel would be the go
Ungerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-04-2011, 12:38 PM   #7
Condor1970
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 24
A V-8 diesel for such a small vehicle would be a bad idea. It would be far too heavy. I think Chrysler is considering a diesel for the new Grand Wagoneer though. Built on the same framework as the Durango, it will be definite Jeep 4x4, not a giant fwd Cute-Yute like the Traverse.

I only really brought this topic up, because if I remember right, I thought International originally designed that 3.7L cast-iron V-6 block to be considered for a light duty diesel engine about 15 years ago for commercial truck use (UPS, etc). However, Chrysler bought it, and used it as a gas engine. Since Chrysler is ditching it, why wouldn't International take it back, and finish the work that was started? Maybe it wasn't a good diesel design to begin with? How knows? Then, again, maybe it was differant engine. Not sure.
Condor1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-10-2011, 08:42 PM   #8
Ungerer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Glenden, Queensland
Posts: 698
Could be ok with some thing around 5L v8
Ungerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-10-2011, 11:02 PM   #9
Poncherello
Moderator
2010 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Paterson, New Jersey
Posts: 973
I wrote on another post and moving from Diesels the 4.7 liter V-8 would of been an awesome option for a J-Lib. It has 100 more hp and torque then the 3.7L and only weighs 54 more lbs. Set it up with mds like the bigger 5.7 and you would be good to go.
Poncherello is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-10-2011, 11:58 PM   #10
whitegoat
Member
 
whitegoat's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: marshall, TX
Posts: 246
i think it would be pretty cool to have a cummins isf 3.8 put into the jeep, they wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, its up to date with emissions and chrysler already has a contract with cummins, it weighs 617 lbs and it makes 168hp 450ft/lbs of torque, there are already programers out for them to make more power, i think with some easy bolt ons and programing you could easly make 300+ hp and 600+ ftlbs of torque, and its purdy
lcv_isf38.jpg
__________________

13' JK, leveled, 33"s (my mall crawler)
99' XJ limited, 6" w/ 3 link, 35" procomps
04' Rubicon 4.5" long arm, 35" bfg km2's -sold
91' XJ 6.5" rough country, 34" LTB's - sold
76' CJ5 4", 36" TSL's - sold
whitegoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2011, 08:00 PM   #11
Ungerer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Glenden, Queensland
Posts: 698
Ute
Ungerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2011, 08:03 PM   #12
Ungerer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Glenden, Queensland
Posts: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungerer
Ute
Toyota has a 5.7L v8 in a ute and it's a diesel .
Ungerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2011, 10:02 PM   #13
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitegoat View Post
i think it would be pretty cool to have a cummins isf 3.8 put into the jeep, they wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, its up to date with emissions and chrysler already has a contract with cummins, it weighs 617 lbs and it makes 168hp 450ft/lbs of torque, there are already programers out for them to make more power, i think with some easy bolt ons and programing you could easly make 300+ hp and 600+ ftlbs of torque, and its purdy
Attachment 302451
One, if it was that easy to build that much power, it'd have been done out of the factory. Modern engines can't just have off-the-shelf power adders and maintain the reliability stats that modern consumers demand from an engine.

Second, if it was that easy, it'd have been done. Even for an engine that's already the perfect size and design, it costs billions to change an engine on a vehicle.

Third, it's not just about the engine meeting emissions, its the car/engine combination. You have to test the engine, then every possible permutation of drivetrain. A few years back, Honda dropped their plans to bring a diesel Accord to North America, because the manual version passed emissions and the automatic didn't. That's how tight it is.

Forth, the B-Series is perfectly acceptable in large truck and industrial applications, and probably for a Wrangler, but it's far too rough for most vehicles, and it's not cost-efficient to drop it in the Wrangler.

Plus, the 2.8 or 3.0L VM Motoris that ARE coming (eventually) are more powerful, more refined, more efficient and every bit as efficient.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2011, 11:26 PM   #14
whitegoat
Member
 
whitegoat's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: marshall, TX
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
One, if it was that easy to build that much power, it'd have been done out of the factory. Modern engines can't just have off-the-shelf power adders and maintain the reliability stats that modern consumers demand from an engine.

Second, if it was that easy, it'd have been done. Even for an engine that's already the perfect size and design, it costs billions to change an engine on a vehicle.

Third, it's not just about the engine meeting emissions, its the car/engine combination. You have to test the engine, then every possible permutation of drivetrain. A few years back, Honda dropped their plans to bring a diesel Accord to North America, because the manual version passed emissions and the automatic didn't. That's how tight it is.

Forth, the B-Series is perfectly acceptable in large truck and industrial applications, and probably for a Wrangler, but it's far too rough for most vehicles, and it's not cost- to drop it in the Wrangler.

Plus, the 2.8 or 3.0L VM Motoris that ARE coming (eventually) are more powerful, more refined, more efficient and every bit as efficient.
first : it is that easy to build that kind of power with a diesel, i have done it 760 hp & 1309 ft/lbs of torque on a stock 5.9 cummins with bolt ons and still get 22+ mpg on the highway in a 7000 lb 4x4 if thats not efficient idk what is, and have seen stock cummins go 900+hp

second: it doesn't take a rocket scientest or billions of dollars to do a motor swap, i'm not saying that the R&D is going to be cheap, but billions???

third: who cares what honda did, if we did care we would all be driving hondas, its completly doable

fourth: the b series is perfect for the wrangler, its a hell of a lot better than that turd 3.8 thats in it now and remember its a jeep not a sports car

and the isf 3.8 is refined im not talking about the mechanically injected 4bt this is a common rail electronically injected diesel, who wants an italian made diesel over an american made cummins that is known durability and making good power
__________________

13' JK, leveled, 33"s (my mall crawler)
99' XJ limited, 6" w/ 3 link, 35" procomps
04' Rubicon 4.5" long arm, 35" bfg km2's -sold
91' XJ 6.5" rough country, 34" LTB's - sold
76' CJ5 4", 36" TSL's - sold
whitegoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-12-2011, 09:48 AM   #15
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,783
Rather than explain why you're wrong, I'm just going to suggest you go over to Allpar and talk to Bob Sheaves. He's a former Chrysler engineer who will take great pleasure in telling you exactly why there isn't a B-Series in a Jeep, that is does in fact that billions to engineer a new engine swap and you can't just slap power adders on a production vehicle.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.