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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:48 AM   #16
j_bydesign
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4bt cummings

how about 40+ MPG out of a cummins... convert a tj for $15K... add bio into the mix and its a home run any way you look at it! no one looks at the carbon footprint... a toy prius has twice the footprint of an H1 hummer! raw materails for the batteries are mined in a waste land up in canada... shipped to japan where the batts are built then shipped back to north america and placed into cars.... not mention the fact that the batts can not be recycled... easily...? oh and they are good for 6 to 8 years and cost $6k + to replace!

planning on swapping a 4BT into my TJ soon

the Cali tree huggers have got to look at realality... our just keep making silly movies

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Unread 05-30-2009, 12:26 PM   #17
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The Prius having a bigger footprint than the H2 thing is a myth created by a paper written by some student. He assumed a life of 100k miles the Prius, and 200k miles for the Hummer, or something like that.
But you're right, the total footprint does matter.

I read somewhere that diesels create pollutants that don't break down naturally, aldehydes... They accumulate in the environment.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
The Prius having a bigger footprint than the H2 thing is a myth created by a paper written by some student.....

I read somewhere that diesels create pollutants that don't break down naturally, aldehydes... They accumulate in the environment.
That sounds like some myth created by a paper written by some student....
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Unread 05-31-2009, 08:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RKBA View Post
I don't believe we will see more diesels in the United States without major changes in state specific enviro-wacko policies. CA, MA and a couple of other states have been the hold up on light duty diesels for more than a few years. VW for example had big plans for small turbo diesels across most of the platforms as recent as a year or two ago, but the left leaning state govts simply wouldn't buy off on it, so VW backed away from that.

As the Obama regime continues to have the EPA mimick CA standards for everyone, less rather than more diesel engines seem likely. He wants you to drive an electric/pixie dust/unicorn fart powered crap box, and with essential control over two and a half auto manufacturers I would argue that he will get his way for now.

Small turbo diesels powered by biodiesel and bioblends is an obvious medium term low hanging fruit solution for merging away from petroleum based fuels to anyone with even a moderate grasp on the situation. That isn't the issue in all this; it's about controlling a social agenda. period.

Elections have consequences folks. This is precisely the "Hope and Change" that the radical left wing Mr. Obama hails from desires for you.

Science/facts/reality/economics/free markets be damned, they are going to tell you what is good for you whether you like it or not.
I agree... well stated.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 12:19 PM   #20
winkosmosis
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Originally Posted by RKBA View Post
I don't believe we will see more diesels in the United States without major changes in state specific enviro-wacko policies. CA, MA and a couple of other states have been the hold up on light duty diesels for more than a few years. VW for example had big plans for small turbo diesels across most of the platforms as recent as a year or two ago, but the left leaning state govts simply wouldn't buy off on it, so VW backed away from that.

As the Obama regime continues to have the EPA mimick CA standards for everyone, less rather than more diesel engines seem likely. He wants you to drive an electric/pixie dust/unicorn fart powered crap box, and with essential control over two and a half auto manufacturers I would argue that he will get his way for now.

Small turbo diesels powered by biodiesel and bioblends is an obvious medium term low hanging fruit solution for merging away from petroleum based fuels to anyone with even a moderate grasp on the situation. That isn't the issue in all this; it's about controlling a social agenda. period.

Elections have consequences folks. This is precisely the "Hope and Change" that the radical left wing Mr. Obama hails from desires for you.

Science/facts/reality/economics/free markets be damned, they are going to tell you what is good for you whether you like it or not.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the folks denying science/facts/reality have been the global warming deniers who don't want any fuel economy standards.

What makes you think Obama has something against diesels?
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Unread 05-31-2009, 08:34 PM   #21
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honestly the answer lies in vehicles that have totally renewable fuel (hydrogen) and produces no pollution, all others are just masking the real issue.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 12:56 PM   #22
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Modern Diesel put out less pollutants than gasoline engines, also the New Fiat diesels can use compress natural gas as well as all types of diesel fuels to operate on, Now combine this diesel engine with a Battery and you have the best system for the future!

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Unread 06-02-2009, 04:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the folks denying science/facts/reality have been the global warming deniers who don't want any fuel economy standards.

What makes you think Obama has something against diesels?
Anthropogenic Global Warming is a hoax.

The planet has been on a cooling trend since 1998 as actually observed by the Jason satellite (jointly run by NASA and the French).

C02 is not a pollutant.

The most significant spike in atmospheric C02 we can determine preceded a little period called the ice age.

Another recent major increase in global carbon dioxide levels occured in the period from 1940 to the mid seventies, which occurred during a cooling trend.

The UN IPCC "hockey stick" chart that is largely responsible for this hysteria has been proven to be flawed by actual climatologists. Even taken at face value it only indicates a 1.1 degree change in mean temperature over the last one hundred and fifty years. Hardly a planet killer.

Global warming is not fact or science; it is merely a religion for the irreligious. It requires faith in the unobservable, and accepts no challenges to it's stated authority. If Global Warming Cultists cared about the environment, they would seek the "best" solution to potential problems and amiably discuss all viable alternatives. Instead, we are given dire warnings and told how to live regardless of the consequences. AGW fanatics don't give two rips about the planet, they (you) care about telling me what to do. You sir, may place that where the sun doesn't shine.

I don't know about the President in particular, but his supporters and sycophantic followers are part and parcel of wrong headed anti-diesel policy. From what I observe of the man, he probably hasn't the foggiest notion how an internal combustion engine even works much less the difference in fuel types. That type of thing doesn't matter to him - only the big squishy Marxist utopia vision he is working towards.

Don't take my word for it - look into the reasons behind the recently cancelled light duty GM and Ford pickup diesel, environmental policy compliance. The final surrender of VW to TDI models across the lineup was also based on wrong headed enviro-policy from left leaning state governments blocking their every move.

No one challenging the AGW hoax has said they don't support better MPG. It is just that instantly jacking CAFE standards while restricting efficient short term methods of getting there is a piss poor (and very likely economically catastrophic) method of solving a non-existant at best problem.
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Unread 06-02-2009, 04:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow2run View Post
Modern Diesel put out less pollutants than gasoline engines, also the New Fiat diesels can us compress natural gas as well as types of diesel fuels to operate on, Now combine this diesel engine with a Battery and you have the best system for the future!

I have often wondered about that myself; more like a locomotive propulsion sytem than current hybrids.

Small turbo diesel on bio or LP engine running a generator that powers electric motors at the wheels.
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Unread 06-02-2009, 10:14 PM   #25
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volvo i think has worked on a system such as that (the small electric motors) or so my grandfather who is retired but still contracting for Ford has told me.
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Unread 06-04-2009, 03:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
The Prius having a bigger footprint than the H2 thing is a myth created by a paper written by some student. He assumed a life of 100k miles the Prius, and 200k miles for the Hummer, or something like that.
But you're right, the total footprint does matter.
Here is the link to a very damning article that provides insight into environmental damage from this underpowered piece of junk:

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

100K miles for a liefspan sounds about right based on what you will find on eBay. Prius owners know their vehicle is not made to last. They get rid of them soon after the novelty wears off and they see that other vehicles are passing them with ease.

The Prius is akin to the cheap junk foreign imports of the late 1980's, like the Renault Encore. The only problem is this time someone will have to figure out what to do with millions of toxic batteries. Maybe they can be dumped near the Prius factory and be used as obstacles for the moon rover in the aforementioned article. How about a nice Lego-like crater made from old Prius batteries?
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Unread 06-04-2009, 05:00 PM   #27
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I dont have anything 2 Add really but I like alot what im hearing in this topic, it just makes me smile b/c most of it is excatly right!
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Unread 06-06-2009, 02:29 PM   #28
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NASA has just said that global warming is cause by the Sun and not man ! But the media is not listening, Wonder Why ?
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Unread 06-09-2009, 03:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by slow2run View Post
NASA has just said that global warming is cause by the Sun and not man ! But the media is not listening, Wonder Why ?
the majority of the media is liberal and co-opted by the same folks that the democratic party has been co-opted by...
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Unread 06-09-2009, 03:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBA View Post
I don't believe we will see more diesels in the United States without major changes in state specific enviro-wacko policies. CA, MA and a couple of other states have been the hold up on light duty diesels for more than a few years. VW for example had big plans for small turbo diesels across most of the platforms as recent as a year or two ago, but the left leaning state govts simply wouldn't buy off on it, so VW backed away from that.

As the Obama regime continues to have the EPA mimick CA standards for everyone, less rather than more diesel engines seem likely. He wants you to drive an electric/pixie dust/unicorn fart powered crap box, and with essential control over two and a half auto manufacturers I would argue that he will get his way for now.

Small turbo diesels powered by biodiesel and bioblends is an obvious medium term low hanging fruit solution for merging away from petroleum based fuels to anyone with even a moderate grasp on the situation. That isn't the issue in all this; it's about controlling a social agenda. period.

Elections have consequences folks. This is precisely the "Hope and Change" that the radical left wing Mr. Obama hails from desires for you.

Science/facts/reality/economics/free markets be damned, they are going to tell you what is good for you whether you like it or not.
there are several vehicles that are powered by diesel that are coming out that are 50 state legal...diesels are widely accepted by the enviros in Europe because pound for pound they put out 25% less CO2 than an equal gas engine, problem is they aren't equal...diesels get better mileage so they put out even less CO2. Particulates are the biggest problems for diesels, and now days, diesels put out the same amount of particulates as gas motors do...I believe California requires that...many manufacturers have vehicles ready to meet these requirements...the question is, will the public buy, with the new fuel economy standards, they may not have a choice if they want to continue to purchase the types of vehicles many customers demand and are accustomed too...
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