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Unread 01-21-2011, 01:24 PM   #31
Pathkiller
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"The Commander is mankind's biggest achievement in automotive history"???

See you in a year when I stop laughing. Prone to gross overstatement much?

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Unread 01-21-2011, 07:01 PM   #32
88cherokeexj
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The Commander is mankind's biggest achievement in automotive history
lets start with the looks, if i wanted an oversize xj with the jeep 2500 parts from china on it i would just build one. second the third row is COMPLETELY useless. no grown adult can comfortably sit there for more than 5 minutes and if the seat is up you have ZERO visibility out of the rear window. it may be just me but a vehicle that big with that big of a blind spot is asking for the soccer moms who drive them to crash into anything and everything that comes within walking distance of it
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Unread 01-22-2011, 04:32 PM   #33
markso125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathkiller View Post
"The Commander is mankind's biggest achievement in automotive history"???

See you in a year when I stop laughing. Prone to gross overstatement much?
You guys do realize he is in Switzerland and they dont have Ukons, Expeditions, Suburbans or any of that over there. While we think that the commander is really a mundane attempt at trying to compete with the Expedition or the Denali, he is looking up what those vehicles look like because he has probably only seen a handfull of them in passing in the last several years, if at all in real life. But you can get a 4 wheel drive Volkswagen golf with a 2.3l v5 engine in it.

And as a note, they dont have pickup trucks as we know them anywhere but the Americas(primarily north america) either. Most places the Ranger or the High Lux (toyota tacoma) are the biggest trucks you find.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 05:30 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by markso125 View Post
You guys do realize he is in Switzerland and they dont have Ukons, Expeditions, Suburbans or any of that over there. While we think that the commander is really a mundane attempt at trying to compete with the Expedition or the Denali, he is looking up what those vehicles look like because he has probably only seen a handfull of them in passing in the last several years, if at all in real life. But you can get a 4 wheel drive Volkswagen golf with a 2.3l v5 engine in it.

And as a note, they dont have pickup trucks as we know them anywhere but the Americas(primarily north america) either. Most places the Ranger or the High Lux (toyota tacoma) are the biggest trucks you find.
You sure? My friend who lives in Valencia, Spain has an F-150 Lightning. Stupid truck, but he still bought it in a non-America. Just because full size trucks aren't popular elsewhere doesn't always mean they aren't available.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 07:09 PM   #35
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The Lightning was exported to Europe specifically, none of the 5 full-size American trucks are sold in Europe. Generally, they either use mid-size pickups or full-size van-based chassis cab units with assorted beds.

Full-size pickups are, by and large, a uniquely American thing. Once in a while, you'll see them in Asia or South America, but 90% of them are in the USA and Canada.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 08:59 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
The Lightning was exported to Europe specifically, none of the 5 full-size American trucks are sold in Europe. Generally, they either use mid-size pickups or full-size van-based chassis cab units with assorted beds.

Full-size pickups are, by and large, a uniquely American thing. Once in a while, you'll see them in Asia or South America, but 90% of them are in the USA and Canada.
Don't forget Mexico. The F-150 is called the Lobo down there, and actually sells pretty well.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 10:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markso125 View Post
You guys do realize he is in Switzerland and they dont have Ukons, Expeditions, Suburbans or any of that over there. While we think that the commander is really a mundane attempt at trying to compete with the Expedition or the Denali, he is looking up what those vehicles look like because he has probably only seen a handfull of them in passing in the last several years, if at all in real life.

And as a note, they dont have pickup trucks as we know them anywhere but the Americas(primarily north america) either. Most places the Ranger or the High Lux (toyota tacoma) are the biggest trucks you find.
Again, are you sure about that? While I was in the Navy I saw Suburbans in Italy and Spain, one of them was even a 2500 w/a diesel.

Quote:
But you can get a 4 wheel drive Volkswagen golf with a 2.3l I-5 engine in it.
Fixed it for you.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 10:43 PM   #38
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Fixed it for you.
Nope you broke it Its actually a V5 and its sold that way. But its not a V5 in the sense that we consider a V5 engine configuration.

It is roughly a 15 degree staggered cylinder v5 so the configuration forms a slight v


The VR5 engine is derived from the VR6 it is pretty much the same engine with one cylinder cut off.
Here are some pics of a disassembled VR6 it will give you allot better understanding of what I am talking about...



Here is the bottom of the head look at the hemispherically balanced combustion chambers, so this motor is a "Hemi" in every sense of the term but the copyrighted name.... (shh dont tell but all the 3 valve and 4 valve ford v8's currently in production are all hemispherically balanced motors too.. in fact the only V8s that are currently sold in the US that are not hemispherically balanced are made by Gooberment Motors.....yes im including Toyota and Nissans V8s too so sorry guys their both Hemis too. Chrystler is the only one with a pushrod hemi though the rest of the manufacturers use overhead camshafts)



and just for good measure here is one of the assembled motor with its cams hanging out



Obviously the pistons are not straight in a line so therefore it is not a straight 5, or straight 6 depending on the engine. But for those that dont know what the internals look like it can be pretty easy to
mistake it for an inline especially since it only has one head.

So like I said 2.3L V5 petrol engine.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 11:05 PM   #39
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Again, are you sure about that? While I was in the Navy I saw Suburbans in Italy and Spain, one of them was even a 2500 w/a diesel.
Ok I will rephrase it they are not for the european market, all of the full sized truck based vehicles are imported from the US.... Especially on/around US military instalations.

Of course they dont get cars like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or Corvette over there either.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 11:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by markso125 View Post
Ok I will rephrase it they are not for the european market, all of the full sized truck based vehicles are imported from the US.... Especially on/around US military instalations.

Of course they dont get cars like the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or Corvette over there either.
Happy shopping....
http://www.corvette-europe.com/pdf/Corvette_en.pdf


Getting back on topic, there is no justifiable explanation for claiming the Commander is the greatest automotive accomplishment. We have debunked the "grading on a curve" argument.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 11:18 PM   #41
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Don't forget Mexico. The F-150 is called the Lobo down there, and actually sells pretty well.
I thought they weren't sold new there, just stolen from Texas.

Brain fart, forgot Mexico.

But, yeah, by and large American 'trucks' (As in pickups and BOF SUVs) aren't sold in any significant quantities outside North America. Some regions do better than others, but most don't even carry them on a regular basis.

There's plenty of reasons, depending on the region. In Europe, it's generally because if you drove a Ram 3500 dually down the street, you'd take out every car parked on the street-and half the porches too. And paying $300 to tank up would suck. In Africa and the Middle East, it's generally because there's not a ton of dealer support and...well, honestly, they're pretty damn poor for the most part. They wouldn't fit physically in most of Asia as well. I believe they are sold in some places in South America, but not in any real numbers.

As for Australia...well, I honestly have no idea why not. The demographics, landscape, city layout and gas prices are all acceptable, and at least Ford and Chevy (Well, Holden) have significant presences there. The car culture is more quintessentially American then actual American car culture is nowadays. I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason, probably relating to tariffs or vehicle size classifications or something, but I don't know what it is.
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Unread 01-22-2011, 11:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
I thought they weren't sold new there, just stolen from Texas.

Brain fart, forgot Mexico.

But, yeah, by and large American 'trucks' (As in pickups and BOF SUVs) aren't sold in any significant quantities outside North America. Some regions do better than others, but most don't even carry them on a regular basis.

There's plenty of reasons, depending on the region. In Europe, it's generally because if you drove a Ram 3500 dually down the street, you'd take out every car parked on the street-and half the porches too. And paying $300 to tank up would suck. In Africa and the Middle East, it's generally because there's not a ton of dealer support and...well, honestly, they're pretty damn poor for the most part. They wouldn't fit physically in most of Asia as well. I believe they are sold in some places in South America, but not in any real numbers.

As for Australia...well, I honestly have no idea why not. The demographics, landscape, city layout and gas prices are all acceptable, and at least Ford and Chevy (Well, Holden) have significant presences there. The car culture is more quintessentially American then actual American car culture is nowadays. I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason, probably relating to tariffs or vehicle size classifications or something, but I don't know what it is.
No worries. I just love nit-picking when people tell me I'm wrong.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 05:20 AM   #43
markso125
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Originally Posted by OCS12 View Post
Happy shopping....
http://www.corvette-europe.com/pdf/Corvette_en.pdf


Getting back on topic, there is no justifiable explanation for claiming the Commander is the greatest automotive accomplishment. We have debunked the "grading on a curve" argument.
Like I said they have to be imported in they are not a general consumer product. They can import mustangs and challengers over there too just like we can import, holdens, vauxhaulls, and opels over here. They are not inteneded for the european consumer market. So you trying to contradict me actually enforced my point.

Here is the disclaimer printed on the very last page of that catalog you linked

"Images contained in this printed piece pertain to current products for the US market only. The written information contained herein is designed to be as comprehensive and factual as possible for the European market. We reserve the right, however, to make changes at any time, without notice, to prices, colours, materials, equipment, specifications, models and availability. Please contact your local retailer regarding product availability. Copyright 2010 General Motors. All Rights Reserved. All text, images and graphics are subject to the copyright and other intellectual property rights of General Motors. These materials may not be reproduced, distributed, or modified without the express written permission of General Motors."
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Unread 01-23-2011, 06:55 AM   #44
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Like I said they have to be imported in they are not a general consumer product. They can import mustangs and challengers over there too just like we can import, holdens, vauxhaulls, and opels over here. They are not inteneded for the european consumer market. So you trying to contradict me actually enforced my point.

Here is the disclaimer printed on the very last page of that catalog you linked

"Images contained in this printed piece pertain to current products for the US market only. The written information contained herein is designed to be as comprehensive and factual as possible for the European market. We reserve the right, however, to make changes at any time, without notice, to prices, colours, materials, equipment, specifications, models and availability. Please contact your local retailer regarding product availability. Copyright 2010 General Motors. All Rights Reserved. All text, images and graphics are subject to the copyright and other intellectual property rights of General Motors. These materials may not be reproduced, distributed, or modified without the express written permission of General Motors."
This is making my head hurt. You said "they don't get cars like Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or Corvette over there either". Yes they do, it's just a hassle to get them. Either they can get them or they can't. Looking on Autotrader UK, I'm finding tons of full size trucks and American cars for sale that someone wasn't able to get...

In fact, there are more used F-150's for sale on AutotraderUK than there are Jeep Commanders.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 07:07 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by OCS12 View Post
This is making my head hurt. You said "they don't get cars like Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or Corvette over there either". Yes they do, it's just a hassle to get them. Either they can get them or they can't. Looking on Autotrader UK, I'm finding tons of full size trucks and American cars for sale that someone wasn't able to get...

In fact, there are more used F-150's for sale on AutotraderUK than there are Jeep Commanders.
But like I said they are not intended for the European market they have to be imported(you keep skipping that part apparently)...You can get a Nissan Skyline R34 here in the US from an import company, but they were never intended for US use. For you to bring one into the country you have to add a whole bunch of crap to it so it will meet the US emmisions and Safety standards of the year it was made, so new bumpers, things like that have to be installed when you get it here.
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