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Unread 01-11-2011, 10:40 AM   #1
Bionicrooster
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Return of the Wagoneer?

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/11/r...oneer-in-2013/

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Unread 01-12-2011, 01:38 PM   #2
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Yeah, I just saw that too:
Quote:
In talking with reporters on Monday at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Chrysler and Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne revealed plans to bring the Jeep Grand Wagoneer nameplate back to life with an all-new seven seat SUV model, based on the underpinnings of the recently launched Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango.

“It's time we gave the market an upper-scale Grand Wagoneer,” said Marchionne. “You'll see it in January 2013.”
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/01...nameplate.html
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Unread 01-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #3
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That will be interesting.
I however love the old square look .
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Unread 01-12-2011, 03:44 PM   #4
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Would they seriously bring it back with that look? If so, AWESOME!
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Unread 01-12-2011, 07:37 PM   #5
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I grew up riding around in the back of a beautiful brown Wagoneer with the wood paneling. I think it rocks that they're bringing it back and really, really hope they offer a retro woodie version.
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Unread 01-12-2011, 09:56 PM   #6
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I have confidence in Chrysler after seeing the 2011 GC, but there are so many ways to mess this up. The odds are definitely against them. For me, a modern Wagoneer needs to be big, I'm not sure the WK2 platform is big enough for this. I'm thinking Land Cruiser 100 size. This cannot be a Commander 2, which is just a slightly bigger GC with a useless 3rd row. More importantly, it needs to reflect the awesome Brooks Stevens design of the original Personally, I like the 60's style ones the best, with the round headlights and vertical slot grill, like newer Jeeps.

I must also say that it is an interesting decision to bring out another SUV at this time. It's not like gas is going to get any cheaper or CAFE any less stringent.
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Unread 01-13-2011, 08:28 AM   #7
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It probably has more to do with maximizing the production line and milking some high profit sales. Not everyone cross shops between Dodge and Jeep. A few people will want a bigger Jeep than the Grand Cherokee but would never think of buying the Dodge Durango.
So instead of risking losing them and having them buy a Yukon or Tahoe they build the Wagoneer.

If projected Durango and Grand Cherokee sales were enough to max out the production line the Wagoneer would never be built.

That is what is so curious about all the talk of a Jeep pickup off of the Wrangler. The Wrangler is selling so well that there isn't the production line capacity to build a Jeep pickup. Not sure how Jeep expects to build both.
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Unread 01-13-2011, 10:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by XJ2Timer View Post
It probably has more to do with maximizing the production line and milking some high profit sales. Not everyone cross shops between Dodge and Jeep. A few people will want a bigger Jeep than the Grand Cherokee but would never think of buying the Dodge Durango.
So instead of risking losing them and having them buy a Yukon or Tahoe they build the Wagoneer.

If projected Durango and Grand Cherokee sales were enough to max out the production line the Wagoneer would never be built.

That is what is so curious about all the talk of a Jeep pickup off of the Wrangler. The Wrangler is selling so well that there isn't the production line capacity to build a Jeep pickup. Not sure how Jeep expects to build both.
My guess is that it'll replace the Chrysler Aspen as Chrysler group's large luxo SUV. Based on the news that either the Caravan or the Town & Country is also getting cut, I'm guessing Chrysler has wised up and realized that people don't want to pay for identical vehicles with a few more options for a lot more money. If buy a luxury truck, I don't want it looking exactly like it's cheaper brother.

They'll probably take a Durango, replace it with a Jeep styled body, add in some of the current Grand Cherokee's suspension bits, and end up with a nice luxury SUV instead of the flop that was the Aspen.
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Unread 01-13-2011, 09:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by OCS12 View Post
They'll probably take a Durango, replace it with a Jeep styled body, add in some of the current Grand Cherokee's suspension bits, and end up with a nice luxury SUV instead of the flop that was the Aspen.
The next gen Durango is built on the current Grand Cherokee platform
2012-dodge-durango-1.jpg  
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Unread 01-14-2011, 09:35 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by OCS12 View Post
My guess is that it'll replace the Chrysler Aspen as Chrysler group's large luxo SUV. Based on the news that either the Caravan or the Town & Country is also getting cut, I'm guessing Chrysler has wised up and realized that people don't want to pay for identical vehicles with a few more options for a lot more money. If buy a luxury truck, I don't want it looking exactly like it's cheaper brother.

They'll probably take a Durango, replace it with a Jeep styled body, add in some of the current Grand Cherokee's suspension bits, and end up with a nice luxury SUV instead of the flop that was the Aspen.
Reread what you wrote. At the bottom you talk about primarily copying the Durango to build the Wagoneer. But above you talk about Chrysler has wised up with the Caravan and T&C that people don't want to pay for identical vehicles.

Can't have it both ways. If Chrysler believes that there are people who won't buy the Durango (Dodge) but will buy a Wagoneer (Jeep), then the same has to hold true with the minivans. When Plymouth bit the dust not all of the Voyager buyers moved to Caravan or T&C. Some GMC pickup buyers will not buy a Chevrolet.

I'm not saying that a manufacturer should have every model in every brand. But automakers need to know that they will both gain and lose customers with any changes they make. Hopefully they choose wisely.

Sorry for going off track and away from Jeep.

The Town & Country may become more of a people mover with less attention to carrying cargo. Personally I think Chrysler needs to go back to the Citadel concept for a Chrysler people mover. The Citadel had sliding rear doors like a minivan.


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Unread 01-14-2011, 11:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ2Timer View Post

That is what is so curious about all the talk of a Jeep pickup off of the Wrangler. The Wrangler is selling so well that there isn't the production line capacity to build a Jeep pickup. Not sure how Jeep expects to build both.
Sergio was quoted as saying that there is capacity to build a pickup on the same line. To me, a pickup makes a lot more sense than a Wagoneer. The big luxury SUV is limited and already crowded(Escalade, Denali, Land Cruiser, LX 570, QX 56, Navigator). Think about it, in the early 2000's all the Jeepers I talked to wanted a pickup, not a 4 door(more room was wanted, but then the LJ came). The 4 door came out, and it's a wild success. Imagine how successful a vehicle would be that people actually really want, especially now that the Ranger is gone, and the future of the Colorado/Canyon is uncertain.
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Unread 01-14-2011, 08:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ2Timer View Post
Reread what you wrote. At the bottom you talk about primarily copying the Durango to build the Wagoneer. But above you talk about Chrysler has wised up with the Caravan and T&C that people don't want to pay for identical vehicles.

Can't have it both ways. If Chrysler believes that there are people who won't buy the Durango (Dodge) but will buy a Wagoneer (Jeep), then the same has to hold true with the minivans. When Plymouth bit the dust not all of the Voyager buyers moved to Caravan or T&C. Some GMC pickup buyers will not buy a Chevrolet.

I'm not saying that a manufacturer should have every model in every brand. But automakers need to know that they will both gain and lose customers with any changes they make. Hopefully they choose wisely.

Sorry for going off track and away from Jeep.

Oh, and I didn't mean for them to copy the Durango, just reuse it's platform, engine, transmission, etc. Basically same truck, new sheet metal.

The Town & Country may become more of a people mover with less attention to carrying cargo. Personally I think Chrysler needs to go back to the Citadel concept for a Chrysler people mover. The Citadel had sliding rear doors like a minivan.


Maybe I should clarify what I meant. Sometimes I ramble on and don't always makes sense. What I meant is that if Chrysler Group is going to sell a luxury version of a vehicle based off an existing one, it shouldn't look exactly like the original. Acura seems to have this concept nailed. Almost the whole brand consists of rebadged Hondas, but aside from the added luxury, they use different sheet metal on every version. It sets an Acura apart from it's sibling Honda.

Dumping the Chrysler branded Aspen and sliding a Jeep branded Wagoneer in it's place/price slot would make perfect sense. Chrysler needs to get back to it's roots of luxury cars for the working man, not SUV's. With the history of success behind Jeep's move towards nicer and nicer SUV's, it's the perfect brand to host Chrysler Group's luxury SUV. It'll need distinctive styling that says "I'm a Jeep" though. A fully loaded Durango with Wagoneer body panels would actually be unique. I think this is where the Aspen failed.

This is all entirely uninformed opinion of my own creation though.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 08:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by OCS12 View Post
Dumping the Chrysler branded Aspen and sliding a Jeep branded Wagoneer in it's place/price slot would make perfect sense. Chrysler needs to get back to it's roots of luxury cars for the working man, not SUV's. With the history of success behind Jeep's move towards nicer and nicer SUV's, it's the perfect brand to host Chrysler Group's luxury SUV. It'll need distinctive styling that says "I'm a Jeep" though. A fully loaded Durango with Wagoneer body panels would actually be unique. I think this is where the Aspen failed.

This is all entirely uninformed opinion of my own creation though.
Okay. I understand better. It is curious how every type of vehicle was seen as having to be available from every brand. Hard to see how anyone thought a Cadillac truck makes sense. It sells but it doesn't make sense (to me).

Since Chrysler (except for the short lived, ill timed Aspen) doesn't have a history of having a luxury SUV a Jeep could take the place. As long as buyers accept it. Good advertising, talking about the long history of Jeep making capable and stylish SUV's would help make Chrysler buyers consider a Jeep for luxury.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:06 AM   #14
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Has everyone missed the part where I said that the Durango and GC are now on the same platform? So all of this talk about:
Quote:
A fully loaded Durango with Wagoneer body panels would actually be unique.
Is kind of redundant? The new Durango is a re-skinned Jeep. The new Waggy is nothing more than a premium Grand Cherokee with some changes to the sheet metal.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 01:24 PM   #15
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Has everyone missed the part where I said that the Durango and GC are now on the same platform? So all of this talk about:

Is kind of redundant? The new Durango is a re-skinned Jeep. The new Waggy is nothing more than a premium Grand Cherokee with some changes to the sheet metal.
No. The Grand Cherokee is a 5 passenger vehicle while the Durango is a longer 7 passenger vehicle. Also, the Durango is only rear wheel drive or all wheel drive while the GC can be had with a low range in the transfer case.

The Wagoneer would be a reskinned Durango in length but would have the 4 wheel drive systems from the GC.
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