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Savvy/Currie Aluminum Control ArmsRockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4w

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Unread 06-09-2013, 08:07 PM   #256
firebrick
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Spent many times cold and wet, or hot as hades in my old cj. It was a great rig but my loaded up JK is awesome. Haters going to hate.

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Unread 06-16-2013, 07:52 PM   #257
SchizophrenicMC
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As a Grand Cherokee owner, I find all this talk about making it so bricks offer more amenities than the Wrangler, silly. Air conditioning and comfortable seats are awesome, and it's not like everyone who's complaining can afford a new vehicle anyway. It's not like you'd buy a JK2 if it was stripped out like you want. You'd just get a CJ7, YJ, or TJ and modify it. You know why the JK sells ridiculously well? Because it appeals to LOTS OF PEOPLE, not just a bunch of sour-faced Jeepers who can't afford it.

And for that matter, the JK ain't that expensive. They start out at 23 grand, which is about as cheap as you can get a new vehicle these days. The only things that still hang out below 20 large are compact imports. Kia Fortes and Ford Fiestas. I'm still in shock that the Patriot and Compass come in as cheap as they do. In fact, adjusted for inflation, the 6-cylinder 1993 YJ had a base MSRP of $22,600. The current 6-cylinder JK has a base price of $22,300. And 100 more horsepower along much the same curve, a higher torque figure along a similar torque curve, better axles and suspension, and greater comfort. The only word to describe the JK versus the TJ, YJ, and CJ, is BETTER

The Wrangler is Jeep's Corvette, so don't worry about it getting adulterated. The Corvette's still an FMR V8-only sports car, and the Wrangler will always be a rough-and-ready, vaguely-brick-shaped, solid-axle 4x4. It just has to have some damn improvements to get even better and meet various rules, regulations, and laws. And to continue attracting new buyers because Jeep isn't looking to please US, they're looking to please BUYERS. People who have 20 or 30 grand worth of credit to drop on a new vehicle and who don't plan on buying a $4,000 20-year-old beater to put new axles in (Did I mention the JK comes with a standard rear D44? Yeah, you heard right, they don't even make the 35 anymore) and put 33" or 35" tires on, with some silly lift. (JKs can fit 33s from stock, though they might rub under some conditions) I'll be the first to admit, I spent $1200 buying a ZJ and that was that. I can't afford a new Jeep and if I could I'd probably put that money elsewhere. And Jeep knows that and that's why they don't conform to my specific wants. (Actually they do. They offer everything I want in a 4x4. Damn I wish I had more money)

As a Grand Cherokee owner, I have to say, amenities are awesome. I bought my Jeep because it can do anything every day of the week. It's a goat offroad, but when I get back on the road and have to drive to work and class every day, it's comfortable, keeps me warm and cool, doesn't make a lot of noise, and plays some nice tunes on a good radio. I have room for 5 to fit comfortably and still carry the dog, cooler, and fishing equipment, and probably pull a small trailer. (Don't wanna push it- the 4.0's durable but it's got no power at all. Shoulda sprung for the V8. Which the Pentastar has 50hp over.) It does many things very well and is just as good on road as off. Which is to say it's amazing at both. The JK is just the same. It's fairly comfortable, it's not as loud as former iterations, it has a working air conditioner and famous Jeep heater, and it seats 5 with room for the dog, cooler, et cetera. It's a very usable, utilitarian vehicle. And for as good as it is on road, it's even better off. It is, hands down, the best stock 4x4 ever made. Ridiculously capable, without sacrificing daily usability, that's what Jeep is. Not stripped-down single-purpose nonsense, not loud discomfort, not cheap no-frills. Jeep means no compromise.

And that's what I want for the next generation Wrangler. I want it to stay true to Jeep's no-compromise spirit. I want it to be everything it is today, but better. And I have faith that Jeep can do that, because that's what they've always done.
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Unread 06-17-2013, 11:37 AM   #258
Kenny-g
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Preach it brotha! Lol I completely agree with you! I'm cool with changes coming to the wrangler and I don't think they'd ruin it by any means...or I hope they don't haha


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Unread 06-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #259
blackjeep05
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yea you can have the penta****. 4.0L is plenty plus it will outlast the soccer mom motor.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 01:55 PM   #260
Patman8354
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Originally Posted by blackjeep05 View Post
yea you can have the penta****. 4.0l is plenty plus it will outlast the soccer mom motor.
x2
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Unread 06-18-2013, 06:50 PM   #261
dmill89
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Originally Posted by blackjeep05 View Post
yea you can have the penta****. 4.0l is plenty plus it will outlast the soccer mom motor.
x3
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Unread 06-18-2013, 08:40 PM   #262
Kenny-g
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I am definitely not a fan of the 3.8L but the 3.6 is great imo but hey what do I know, I started off in a '12 Patriot so I must be ignorant to the old Jeep Wrangler ways right?
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Unread 06-18-2013, 09:43 PM   #263
SchizophrenicMC
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My 4.0 has 250,000 miles on it. 250,000 very slow, loud, gas-guzzling miles, of which not very many were spent pulling anything, because it just doesn't have the power to move anything bigger than an XJ with a dog in the back, let alone a Grand Cherokee or, god forbid, a 4500lb JK.

Betcha $20, though, that the 3.6 lasts just as long.

The thing I hate about my fellow Jeepers is that so many of them think tradition > capability.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 10:44 AM   #264
blackjeep05
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Well it has to get to 100k first without overhual before it can hit 250k.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 07:11 PM   #265
SchizophrenicMC
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Considering the engine isn't even 2 years old, no one can really say anything for sure in either direction. But I have a feeling it'll do cool long-lasting stuff.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 07:24 PM   #266
dmill89
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
Considering the engine isn't even 2 years old, no one can really say anything for sure in either direction. But I have a feeling it'll do cool long-lasting stuff.
Honestly I think in the end it will come down to the durability (or lack thereof) of the timing system. OHC/DOHC V style engines are notorious for timing system failures (due to the very long chains/belts that are necessary) and with the Pentastar being an interference engine a timing system failure is fatal. If the timing system holds up the engine will likely last a long time. However, I tend to avoid buying vehicles with an OHC/DOHC V style interference engine (or interference engines in general if they can be avoided) for this reason.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 10:20 PM   #267
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I'm under the impression the Pentastar is chain timed. My experience with chain-timed engines is that the engine explodes, and then the timing chain gives up the ghost a billion miles later. I currently own 3 DOHC chain-timed engines, 2 SOHC chain-timed engines, and a chain-timed GMC 350. Around 600,000 miles between the 5 engines and none of them have timing-chain related problems, except the one Nissan DOHC, which has a loose chain tensioner rattling around. It's a vestigal part on that engine, anyway, and just makes a faint rattling noise. This particular engine has 130,000 miles, but the one it replaced had 170,000 and its chain was still good, it'd just spun a bearing due to a misguided attempt at maintenance by a previous owner. The Saturn has a 180k miles on its SOHC chain-timed engine, and its only issue is rod knock. Timing chain's as tight and silent as ever.

The point is, timing belts are a problem, especially on DOHC V6s, but chains are basically lifetime parts, and the Pentastar is a chain-timed engine. If we see any sort of long-term issues aside from the norm, I only expect they'll be with the VVT system, but even that's just 2 actuators that are fairly uneventful to replace.
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Unread 06-20-2013, 05:17 PM   #268
dmill89
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
I'm under the impression the Pentastar is chain timed. My experience with chain-timed engines is that the engine explodes, and then the timing chain gives up the ghost a billion miles later. I currently own 3 DOHC chain-timed engines, 2 SOHC chain-timed engines, and a chain-timed GMC 350. Around 600,000 miles between the 5 engines and none of them have timing-chain related problems, except the one Nissan DOHC, which has a loose chain tensioner rattling around. It's a vestigal part on that engine, anyway, and just makes a faint rattling noise. This particular engine has 130,000 miles, but the one it replaced had 170,000 and its chain was still good, it'd just spun a bearing due to a misguided attempt at maintenance by a previous owner. The Saturn has a 180k miles on its SOHC chain-timed engine, and its only issue is rod knock. Timing chain's as tight and silent as ever.

The point is, timing belts are a problem, especially on DOHC V6s, but chains are basically lifetime parts, and the Pentastar is a chain-timed engine. If we see any sort of long-term issues aside from the norm, I only expect they'll be with the VVT system, but even that's just 2 actuators that are fairly uneventful to replace.
The Pentastar is chain timed. Chrysler's record with chain timed V-style OHC/DOHC engines isn't good (see 2.7L DOHC V6 and 4.7 OHC V8 / 3.7L OHC V6). The Pentastar does use a "better" timing chain system than previous Chrysler OHC/DOHC V-style engines. This system uses 2 primary and 2 secondary chains which is very similar to the system Ford used/uses on the 4.6L/5.4L and the 5.0L "coyote" V8 which has a relatively good reputation for reliability, however these Ford engines are non-interface (free-wheeling) so a chain failure doesn't destroy the engine.

Earlier Chrysler OHC/DOHC V-style engines used a single 5ft+ long primary chain which was known to stretch and failure-prone tensioners. The 2.7L DOHC V6 also had an internal water-pump which could either dump coolant into the crankcase or cause catastrophic timing chain failure, as far as I'm concerned anyone who worked on the design of the 2.7L V6 engine should have been fired, it is one of the most poorly designed engines in recent history.

Only time will tell with the Pentastar, however the odds are better for it than Chrysler's earlier OHC/DOHC V-style engine attempts (maybe they finally learned from their mistakes). I personally don't like interference engines in general, though I realize many manufactures use them for emissions/packaging reasons.
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Unread 06-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #269
SchizophrenicMC
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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of interference engines myself, but then it seems it's almost unavoidable on V6s. Every V6 I've worked on has been interference.

Anyway, I have faith in the Pentastar. It's not an unlucky .7.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #270
Spetznaz24
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Man how I wish they would make a more fuel efficient Wrangler. I realize that a Wrangler might not get 30 MPG for another 10 years, but it's awesome to dream about. Looking to replace my Liberty, which gets 15mpg currently.

How will Jeep deal with the 2025 54mpg requirement? That is going to be difficult to do for a wrangler. I hope they do not turn it into a Patriot or Compass.
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