post #31 of Old 11-26-2012, 01:57 PM
Gatzby
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While I was in Brazil, I saw a Mitsubishi truck and a VW truck.

I really hope that jeep goes with the style that Mitsubishi has but maybe a bit smaller

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post #32 of Old 11-26-2012, 06:08 PM
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If you expect a mix between the 2005 Gladiator concept and the AEV Brute 4-Door, you won't be disappointed.

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post #33 of Old 11-27-2012, 11:08 AM
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not in anytime soon

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post #34 of Old 11-27-2012, 02:31 PM
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It will be available at the end of 2012
I work at a Jeep dealership and they are not an available vehicle in the ordering system.
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post #35 of Old 11-28-2012, 11:13 AM
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If you expect a mix between the 2005 Gladiator concept and the AEV Brute 4-Door, you won't be disappointed.
I get the feeling that if my expectations are utility, I will be very much disappointed.
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post #36 of Old 12-01-2012, 02:52 PM
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If you expect a mix between the 2005 Gladiator concept and the AEV Brute 4-Door, you won't be disappointed.
I know you said earlier that it will most likely be based on the Wrangler, but what are the odds Jeep will try to stuff some kind of independent suspension underneath? I'd hate to see that happen but it wouldn't surprise me.
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post #37 of Old 12-01-2012, 03:08 PM
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I know you said earlier that it will most likely be based on the Wrangler, but what are the odds Jeep will try to stuff some kind of independent suspension underneath? I'd hate to see that happen but it wouldn't surprise me.
I would expect Jeep to be a little smarter than that. They are quite aware of the 4x4 following behind the Jeep brand and know we all love solid axles. Since they actually take their concept rigs out to Moab and wheel them, I think any truck or SUV like the Wrangler (not talking Compass or Patriot here) that will appeal to offroaders will have solid axles.

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post #38 of Old 12-01-2012, 05:51 PM
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I know you said earlier that it will most likely be based on the Wrangler, but what are the odds Jeep will try to stuff some kind of independent suspension underneath? I'd hate to see that happen but it wouldn't surprise me.
Very low. Essentially, only if it happens to the Wrangler as well, and that will only happen if solid axles cannot be made to meet safety regulations.

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post #39 of Old 12-01-2012, 05:56 PM
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I would expect Jeep to be a little smarter than that. They are quite aware of the 4x4 following behind the Jeep brand and know we all love solid axles. Since they actually take their concept rigs out to Moab and wheel them, I think any truck or SUV like the Wrangler (not talking Compass or Patriot here) that will appeal to offroaders will have solid axles.
You would think but after seeing the abomination that is the new Liberty/Cherokee (basically an oversized version of the new patriot) anything is possible.





Ick. I still don't see the point of jeep coming out with two new vehicles that are virtually identical like the new Patriot and new Liberty/Cherokee. Either come out with 2 vehicles that appeal to 2 different audiences, one an on-road CUV for the mall-crawl crowed (updated Patriot) and one a capable SUV for the off-road crowed (something that disserves to be called a Cherokee) , or discontinue one of them, as it stands they have 2 vehicles going after the same audience.
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post #40 of Old 12-01-2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sjones26573 View Post
I would expect Jeep to be a little smarter than that. They are quite aware of the 4x4 following behind the Jeep brand and know we all love solid axles. Since they actually take their concept rigs out to Moab and wheel them, I think any truck or SUV like the Wrangler (not talking Compass or Patriot here) that will appeal to offroaders will have solid axles.
That seems like common sense, but look at how Jeep killed off the solid-axle Cherokee line. I know the 4-door Wrangler is the spiritual successor to those vehicles but the point is that they are gone.

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Very low. Essentially, only if it happens to the Wrangler as well, and that will only happen if solid axles cannot be made to meet safety regulations.
Which is also a low probability I would imagine, since all the truck manufacturers have a stake in solid axles; mainly rear axles though since it appears that solid fronts are going extinct.

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You would think but after seeing the abomination that is the new Liberty/Cherokee (basically an oversized version of the new patriot) anything is possible.
Exactly, the apparently high popularity of these new junk models has me worried.
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post #41 of Old 12-01-2012, 06:52 PM
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Until Chrysler is an American owned company again, I fear that this crap will continue.
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post #42 of Old 12-01-2012, 07:42 PM
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What influence have you seen from Fiat in the wrangler? I work on them all day everyday and I don't see any.

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post #43 of Old 12-01-2012, 08:46 PM
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Until Chrysler is an American owned company again, I fear that this crap will continue.
The last time Chrysler was both successful and American-owned were the days of Lee Iaccoca. That was over thirty years ago. In the meantime, several periods of American ownership have provided nothing but absolute garbage and mismanagement.

Fiat has provided capital, one of the best CEOs in the business and, most importantly, dignity to Chrysler. And, in return, has taken nothing.

Fiat's investment in Chrysler saved it from destruction, first and foremost, and, to date, has provided the best-rated full-size American cars on the market (The new LX cars), the best-rated midsize SUV on the market (WKII), turned a series of garbage vehicles into competitive players in their segment (J-platform and MK-platform), brought the Ram 1500 to the best vehicle in its segment and turned Chrysler into the fastest-growing and most profitable automaker in the world.

Jeep is reacting to market demand. They're making softer CUVs because that's what consumers are buying.

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What influence have you seen from Fiat in the wrangler? I work on them all day everyday and I don't see any.
The most obvious bit is that there are 2010+ MY Jeeps.

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Ick. I still don't see the point of jeep coming out with two new vehicles that are virtually identical like the new Patriot and new Liberty/Cherokee. Either come out with 2 vehicles that appeal to 2 different audiences, one an on-road CUV for the mall-crawl crowed (updated Patriot) and one a capable SUV for the off-road crowed (something that disserves to be called a Cherokee) , or discontinue one of them, as it stands they have 2 vehicles going after the same audience.
The Compass and Patriot will be combined into a single vehicle. Probably the Patriot. It will be getting slightly smaller as well. The Liberty replacement will be slotted in between the Patriot and Grand Cherokee. It won't be much larger than the Patriot, but it will be considerably more upscale. The Patriot is going to be the cheapest, simplest, rugged little CUV on the market, while the Liberty will be the a mass-market vehicle for those that want a solid all-weather, all-terrain vehicle but don't want the size and fuel efficiency of the Grand Cherokee.

The fact of the matter is, consumers care more about comfort and general utility than raw off-road ability nowadays. It speaks volumes that the Wrangler went from a niche player to the top of the SUV market when it was released in a 4-door version with a nice, livable interior.

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post #44 of Old 12-01-2012, 10:00 PM
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The fact of the matter is, consumers care more about comfort and general utility than raw off-road ability nowadays. It speaks volumes that the Wrangler went from a niche player to the top of the SUV market when it was released in a 4-door version with a nice, livable interior.
Sad but true. It is getting hard to find a real SUV these days especially in the midsized segment. I don't mind a few comforts such as a nice interior but I do not require them, however it is the lack of ability that annoys me. Many CUVs have the same or less ground clearance than my car (2007 Pontiac G6), no real transfer case or low range, a weak unibody that is easily damaged by off-roading and even rough unpaved roads, and are 4cyl only (I've never driven a 4cyl vehicle that I liked and will likely never buy one). You might as well buy an AWD wagon (i.e. Subaru Outback) but calling anything a wagon in the US is the kiss of death, it seems nobody wants a station-wagon these days (it's a shame, I really liked the magnum but there just wasn't enough demand for it to stay in production).
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post #45 of Old 12-01-2012, 10:10 PM
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Yeah, for an off-road-capable 'true' SUV, the Wrangler or Toyota 4Runner are really your only choices, and the new 4Runner blows.

The thing is that the people who bought them for off-road reasons migrated towards compact pickups (Or large ones, if they really needed larger space) because bloat turned pretty much every SUV into something too big for trails.

What's happened is that the market has existed so long that it's been pared down, for the most part, to the absolute best offerings in the segments.

For BOF SUVs, you've basically only got the Jeep Wrangler, Toyota 4Runner and GM GMT93x vehicles (Suburban, Tahoe, ect). I mean, there's a few more (Ford Expedition and so forth), but they're in a distant last. That being said, they're all the best vehicles that have ever existed in their class, in terms of all-round use (The 4Runner isn't as good as it used to be off-road, but it's still pretty decent)

Honestly, it comes down to the Wrangler and the Tacoma. They're the thousand-pound gorillas of the segment. Nobody wants to fight them, and neither Jeep nor Toyota will try to expand their own offerings because any new offerings will just cannibalize existing sales-most people who both want, and could afford, to buy a new Cherokee will eventually buy a Wrangler Unlimited instead, so why build a new Cherokee for the other small segment? It's not profitable.

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