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Unread 11-04-2009, 08:33 AM   #91
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Well, for what it's worth, the Panda (or another Fiat vehicle) may be coming as the Jeep Mojave.

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Unread 11-04-2009, 09:31 AM   #92
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Hopefully the Italians will use common sense and no do this. They need to restore Jeep to its roots....not bring yet another cute-ute into the fold. I'd rather see Jeep sold to Ford and marketed as Wrangler only than to see more of this CUV stuff.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 01:20 PM   #93
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Just found this on stuff FIAT wants to share with and get from Chrysler:

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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:40 PM   #94
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Here's another interesting one, showing Jeep product allocation for Chryfiat, notice no imported models:



Looks like Fiat Jeeps replacing the Patriot and Compass, and new "Jeep Panda" small SUV, but Liberty, Commander, Grand Cherokee and Wrangler left alone in their own Jeep chassis.

70th Anniversary Jeep models to come out in 2011:



This was out of Chrysler five year product plan posted at Jalopnik: Chrysler's Complete Five-Year Product Plan - Chrysler - Jalopnik
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Unread 11-04-2009, 05:24 PM   #95
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Wrangler diesel confirmed via the Q&A from Allpar. Actually, it may mean that ALL Jeeps will get a diesel. The quote from Chrysler/Fiat:
Quote:
Jeeps will be sold with diesels in the US because they will be sold with diesels in Europe.
Note they say 'Jeeps', not just the Wrangler!
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Unread 11-04-2009, 05:32 PM   #96
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I've seen FIAT's plans for Jeep. They are going the opposite direction that I would go. They are destined to fail.

You are witnessing the beginning of the end for the Chrysler / Jeep operation. A more focused Jeep will end up being owned by another company who already has the cute-ute segment covered within 2 years.

What a lame presentation.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 06:09 PM   #97
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Yes, because they're not just making a bunch of sales-cannibalizing, old-school solid axel, rock-stomping rigs that only appeal to maybe 1% of the car market, they're never gonna sell a thing.

Wake up and smell the auto market. I miss the Cherokee and the Wagoneers and the Gladiators as much as the next guy, but look at 90% of the Jeeps on the road today. How many of them actually see anything but pavement? The Cherokee was dropped for the Liberty because there were vehicles that, in the same price range, offered the same utility for far more creature comfort-and most SUV buyers want comfort over off-road prowess. Same goes for the Grand.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't represent the auto market at large. Realistically speaking, you don't even represent Jeep's customer base at large-maybe what Jeep customers 'want' to be, but not what they actually end up being and actually using their Jeeps for.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 06:43 PM   #98
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You are witnessing the beginning of the end for the Chrysler / Jeep operation. A more focused Jeep will end up being owned by another company who already has the cute-ute segment covered within 2 years.
Agreed. The Compass and the Patriot have sold poorly, so the solution is to... make more cute utes, but develop them using Fiat platforms? Okay then.

I'll be interested to see how an Italian automaker with a horrible U.S. reputation and no practical 4x4 experience manages things. Jeep's spent a lot of time and money developing and refining "Uniframe" to stand up to off-road use. Now we're getting Fiat-developed platforms to replace everything but the Grand Cherokee and the Wrangler.

I don't foresee this ending well, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 07:21 PM   #99
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First of all let me preface this by saying I love Jeeps.

I feel the main reason the Patriot/Compass/etc didn’t sell well is that they were substandard vehicles period.

That being said there IS a market for a cute-ute but it has to first be a fundamentally decent vehicle. The interior cant be so damn cheap, the engines so crappy, and the driving dynamics so terrible. Add in horrific styling and you had born sales flops. The patriot and compass wouldn’t have been competitive vehicles 15 years ago let alone today. Will fiat solve the problem, this I cant say, no one can.

Even the wrangler, which I truly love, has a crappy engine. I know some defend the 3.6 but honestly we don’t get decent power, decent torque OR decent fuel economy. We are also still saddled with only 4 gears if we choose an auto. We got saddled with parts bin leftovers.

Of course this will be cured by the Pentastar in 2011. More power, torque, and fuel economy sounds great to me and will really make the wrangler a whole new vehicle.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 09:02 PM   #100
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Funny that you guys mention the Patriot not selling well... here in Fairbanks, AK I see a lot of Patriots driving around. As far as I see the Patriot sells well. But the Alaskan market is nothing like on the lower 48, our small city of 50,000 is Subaru's third largest market per capita. Alaskan tend to be very utilitarian, most cars here are either full size trucks or Subarus... The Patriot kind of fits with Subaru's utilitarian image of a go-anywhere, four wheel drive wagon.

I have considered buying a Patriot for my wife because I want to replace my 08 Forester, station wagon style, and the new Forester does not entice me with its upright, looks-like-a-RAV4 SUV style. I have grown tired of Subaru's new partnership with Toyota and the way it is going away from its independent, quirky, utilitarian ways to become just another Japanese people-mover manufacturer. Subaru had station wagons across their whole product line (Impreza, Forester and Legacy/Outback), but now only the Outback remains.

The Patriot has what I like on a passenger car: decent gas mileage, roomy interior, practical and utilitarian wagon body, and the Patriot Limited with Trail Rated Badge has some very good off road manners (Jeep Patriot Review Off Road Test), plus low gears. I also happen to like its styling.

I can't say the same about the Compass, I think its styling sucks, it ids fugly from all sides, and being the only Jeep that cannot be bought with a Trail Rated badge... why sell it as a Jeep at all? It's a frigging Dodge Caliber with a Jeep-look-alike body kit! (yeah, so is the Patriot, but at least you can take it off road).

As far as the Chrysler/Jeep relationship: I could care less about Chrysler. I never liked their products, I have owned a few and they always let me down. Jeep has always been my favorite US brand. I bought my TJ in full knowledge that it did not have a Chrysler engine or transmission in it.

Ironically, Jeep is a brand with a lot of market appeal, but it is a brand that jinxes whoever owns it. Bantam, Willys, Kaiser, AMC, Renault in the US, Chrysler... whoever owns it evetually is doomed to go down or to be sold out. Funny thing is, the Jeep brand survives. FIAT might own Jeep for a decade or so, Jeeps will evolve as they always did, the newer generations of Jeeps will enfuriate owners of older Jeeps (CJ owners moaned and whined when the YJ came out). Eventually Jeep might bring FIAT down, then it will be sold to some other industrial conglomerate, hopefully American, and live on to make newer and better Jeeps.

I am sure twenty years from now when the Wrangler's descendent hits the showroom JK owners will reminisce about how much more of a Jeep the old JK was, same way CJ owners might feel about the YJ, TJ, JK, ZJ, MK...
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Unread 11-04-2009, 09:13 PM   #101
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[thread-hijack]
BTW, how about this...?


[/thread-hijack]
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Unread 11-05-2009, 06:40 AM   #102
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*Turns right*

The Patriot is one of the better-selling Jeeps in Canada, for much the same reason, as well. There's loads at home in Whitehorse and, even down here in Windsor, they're still everywhere. Not quite as numerous as Wranglers (Especially JKs, you can't throw a rock anywhere in Canada without hitting one), but probably a close second when we're just counting model years. (IE, I see a lot more Patriots then I see Liberty KKs or Grand Cherokee WKs)

However, the Patriot was dull and boring out of the gate. It's improved substantially since then, the interior on the '10s is awesome. But, sadly, nobody bothered to mention this to automotive journalists.

However, I'd be willing to bet that the Patriot's replacement will be pretty similar. Fiat seems to know what the majority of Jeep buyers want, and when you add the sales of the Patriot and Compass together, you get a pretty decent selling single model.
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Unread 11-05-2009, 07:34 PM   #103
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YouTube - Fiat Panda 4x4 vs Range Rover
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Unread 11-05-2009, 08:10 PM   #104
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Yes, because they're not just making a bunch of sales-cannibalizing, old-school solid axel, rock-stomping rigs that only appeal to maybe 1% of the car market, they're never gonna sell a thing.

Wake up and smell the auto market. I miss the Cherokee and the Wagoneers and the Gladiators as much as the next guy, but look at 90% of the Jeeps on the road today. How many of them actually see anything but pavement? The Cherokee was dropped for the Liberty because there were vehicles that, in the same price range, offered the same utility for far more creature comfort-and most SUV buyers want comfort over off-road prowess. Same goes for the Grand.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't represent the auto market at large. Realistically speaking, you don't even represent Jeep's customer base at large-maybe what Jeep customers 'want' to be, but not what they actually end up being and actually using their Jeeps for.
Jeez....you ought to go to work for Chrysler / Fiat public relations.

IFS...I don't care about the IFS / Solid Axle debate. I think Jeeps ought to be about 4WD capability....regardless of the vehicle. That is what Jeep used to stand for. Now Jeep is supposed to be a diluted brand that appeals to everyone. Diamler started the dilution and Fiat wants to complete it.

Dodge / Chrysler brand is for cars. Jeep brand is for four wheel drive.

To Renault / AMC's credit, they didn't ever violate the Jeep creedo. They built it into something that Chrysler valued and purchased. Chrysler keep things honest until Diamler came along and started this process.

Regardless....get ready to see Chrysler / FIAT get their butt kicked trying to copy everybody else. CUV segment is SATURATED and those folks gravitate towards Asian brands....not cheaply built, World Engine-powered, Calibers.

When it all falls apart, hopefully Ford will buy Jeep and restore the honor of the brand.
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Unread 11-06-2009, 03:10 AM   #105
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Dodge / Chrysler brand is for cars. Jeep brand is for four wheel drive.
Fully agree. What's the point in trying to make a JEEP please everybody? Why would anyone possibly want to do that? Trying to be "just like everbody else", only better? WTF?

Jeep is supposed to be old-school, rough, heavy-duty, uncomfortable, reliable, off-road workhorse/joyride. That in mind, it's ok if they are made as comfortable as possible for daily use, but that should never be at the expense of the real Jeep-characteristics. Ever.

It's like Ferrari would build their cars keeping in mind that they have low fuel consumption, minimum level of engine noise, room for 5 + luggage, comfortable suspension, towing hook, grocery net, and all the nice bells and whistles to make that car please the average family sedan buyer. Doesn't make sense.

A Jeep is a Jeep. You like it or you don't. They can surely try to please everybody, maybe even boost sales by doing so, but at the same time they would lose their fans, who in the end are the ones who make the brand worth something. Take out the fans, and the rest of the Jeep image is worth about the same as Rover, or Saab for example. Brands that most people know, "they used to make nice, different cars", brands that people know, but nobody actually cares about. Brands, that were then dropped.

Jeep should continue in it's own, unique way. That's what makes it worth buying.
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