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Yukon Ultimate 35 axle kit for c/clip axles with Yukon ZipThis is a shout out to all INTERNATIONAL Customers! Yes weSPARTAN LOCKERS are on sale BIG TIME at ROCKRIDGE 4WD!

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Unread 07-22-2011, 10:00 PM   #16
stjjames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 242much

sorry bud, but i think you may have your terms mixed up. t-case gives "true 4wd" (compared to pretend 4wd?), you're thinking of a center differential, like in an evolution, STi, or liberty ( just a jab at the KJ guys)
Ummm, no I'm not.
A transfer case will give drive to an axles differential. That can be an open differential, or otherwise - but the diff determines whether or not one, or both tires spin. My Atlas doesn't give my rig true 4wd, my ARB lockers do, the Atlas merely provides drive.

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Unread 07-23-2011, 11:26 AM   #17
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You mean like the 'drive' in '4 Wheel Drive'?

A transfer case gives a vehicle 4 wheel drive. In that all 4 wheels are powered. Lockers give it better 4WD.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot
You mean like the 'drive' in '4 Wheel Drive'?

A transfer case gives a vehicle 4 wheel drive. In that all 4 wheels are powered. Lockers give it better 4WD.
Put your rig in 4 wheel drive.
Place one set of tires on concrete, the other on ice.
The tires on ice will spin, whilst the tires with traction, on concrete will stand idle. You have 'true' 2 wheel drive, one tire fire on each axle. You would need to add a traction devise of some sort to then allow the tires with traction to turn. The same fundamental where when you turn your rig, the inside tires slow, the outside tires accelerate. The inside tire has more traction then the outside. This give you proper road manner. Try driving a spooled rig around, haha.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 11:14 PM   #19
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Look at my location. One wheel on ice and one on concrete is what I call 'commuting' 6 months a year.

Still manage to do just fine without lockers.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 09:42 AM   #20
stjjames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot
Look at my location. One wheel on ice and one on concrete is what I call 'commuting' 6 months a year.

Still manage to do just fine without lockers.
Well, you don't want lockers (engaged) on the ice anyhow - you'll just lose traction with both tires (like drift car, running a spool in the rear) - a big reason I'm an advocate for selectable lockers. The point is, unless your locked front & rear, you don't really have 4wd - nor may you need it.
I've spent plenty of time driving on the ice, both in Washington & Alaska. My old Subaru on studs was magic, the torque/slip sensing diffs & ABS were fantastic. On the Tarmac, a world apart from my Jeeps basic 2speed transfer-case & Selectable diffs. Off the Tarmac, it's a whole different equation & set of rules

Here's an example for you;
This was about 5 years ago - I had an ARB in the rear & a Detroit Tru-Trac LSD in the front. 3 Wheel drive, when push comes to shove - notice the tire in the air spinning & the one with traction, idle ? Lame-O.

Different spots, same idea.



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Unread 07-25-2011, 06:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
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1. Actually, the Durango will continue-if either of them has a limited run, it'll be the Grand Wagoneer.

2. The Grand Wagoneer will trade the Durango's road-oriented coil suspension and AWD transfer case for the Grand Cherokee Overland's adjustable air bag suspension and true 4WD transfer case as well.

The interior will be better-appointed than either the Durango Citadel or the Grand Cherokee Overland.

Additionally, it won't share a single body panel with either the Grand Cherokee or Durango. People who have seen the design prototypes actually say it looks a lot like the originals, but modernized-in the same way a modern JK resembles a Willys MB. Some versions even include wood paneling.

Engine choices are up in the air, but it sounds like the Hemi will be the base engine, possibly the only one. There are rumours about the 6.4L SRT Hemi from the Grand Cherokee SRT-8 will be an option, but it's only a rumour at this point. Not looking too likely, since it's been said that that engine will ONLY be used in SRT-8 vehicles, but at the same time it's entirely possible that there'll be a Grand Wagoneer SRT-8.

3. Also, what's with the mocking saving money by using multiple platforms? It's an excellent idea. No sense reinventing the wheel. And keep in mind that the original Grand Wagoneers were the halo luxury trucks of their day, too.
1. You might want to read the interview about the Grand wagoneer i did, Jeep is going to become Chryslers SUV line period . . . They are currently getting all there dealerships converted to the 3 brands Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep once that is completed the New grand wag is coming out

2. thanks for the info on the vehicle itself, i was figuring a badage swap a roo

3. Nothing wrong with multiplateform vehicular design's, Just thought that was how they auto makers ended up in trouble in the first place

Mike
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Unread 07-26-2011, 12:25 AM   #22
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One, you forgot Ram. They may eventually get an SUV, there's still speculation on a Ram-based Suburban competitor.

Two, Chrysler will be getting an SUV or CUV to replace the Town and Country, and possibly both a smaller and a larger one, depending on demand, and the Durango and Journey will continue for the time being. The Nitro may also get a replacement eventually.

Jeep may have the bulk of the SUVs, but, since they've only made 3 models that aren't SUVs in the past 70 years (Gladiator/J-Truck, Comanche and FC), that's not exactly a big breaking newsflash revelation.

Also, having all Chrysler Group dealers carrying Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram has been in the works since well before Cerberus, even. That'll probably be done by the end of the year, actually. Same goes for the conversion of all Lancia dealers to Lancia/Chrysler and Jeep dealers, although that may take a few years.
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Unread 07-26-2011, 12:14 PM   #23
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NOT what i read, The artical said the other brand SUV's will be phased out tho it said nothing about the CUV's . . .

The Chrysler dealerships here in town as well as the ones over by the inlwas in il got revamped and the new signage clearly states "Chrysler / Dodge / Jeep" NOT one thing on any of the "RAM" onany signage

If you do some research the "RAM" will still be sold under the "DODGE" product line . . . NOT that i much care i don't own any Chrysler's at this time and unless they build a Jeep brand pickup that is of some use to me its NOT to likely i'll be owning any in the future

Its been fun arguing Mostly Oxidized Paint And Rust products with you tho but im affraid im bord of it now

Only time will tell the true story . . .
Mike
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Unread 07-28-2011, 11:16 AM   #24
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What you've read is wrong. Go read the Allpar news and rumours forum.
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Unread 07-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #25
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Well from witnessed events i'm going to have to disagree with you, I watched the dealership in town on my block install all new sign's and it clearly dose NOT say "RAM" any place on it

I highly doubt they put up brand new signs just to have to replace them again

I'll post pic's for you even if that'll help
Mike
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Unread 07-28-2011, 05:32 PM   #26
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I would love to see the Grand wagoneer make it back. Put a hemi in it and 4wd and I would buy one

This pic is on the Allpar.com site. This is ugly. fiat design.
2013-wagoneer.jpg



This pic has been floating around the net for a while.... I prefer this one..
jeep_grand_wagoneer_ii_by_suzq044_chopartist.jpg
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Unread 07-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #27
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The Second pic was a chop shop done by a member of IFSJA.org
So of course that is bound tobe cool

Kind of like this Jeep 5500:


I wanted to see it before i built it
Mike
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Unread 07-28-2011, 07:59 PM   #28
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I love how you are all knocking on the fact that it will be a luxury unibody jeep.

"wah! it's a durango not a real jeep!"

Lets look at the reason the wagoneer was created, and what it was. Go watch a few commercials about them on youtube, from the 70's.

ITS A LUXURY FAMILY 4x4 WAGON. It was never meant to compete with the offroad ability or rugged styling of a CJ. It's meant to be a cushy ride with 4x4 ability, it was the original Luxury SUV.

Suburbans and International travelalls were trucks, not family wagons. They were rugged work vehicles (enclosed trucks) with a crappy ride and no features. The Waggys were cushy, and had all the comforts of home. Automatic transmissions, AC, cloth seats and headliners, the early ones had independent front suspension, many of them had quadratrac AWD.

Thats precisely what the new one will be. A big cushy family cruiser that is AWD. If unibody existed back in the 60's and 70's, the waggy would have been unibody if thats what the nice riding vehicles were.

The Wagoneer and subsequently the grand wagoneer literally created and defined the luxury 4x4 niche. IF you wanna go even further back, the willys wagon was the same idea, but was replaced by the wagoneer.

Get yer heads out of your butts and realize not everyone wants a wrangler or CJ. Some people want a 4x4 that rides like a car and can take the family where they wanna go.

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Unread 07-28-2011, 08:40 PM   #29
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Well lets see, AMX, Javelin, Rambler American ect were all unibodied car's so thats yep unai body's were around . . . then 84' -01' XJ's 86'-92' MJ's . . .

Those were just a few AMC's and AMC era Jeep's using unibody construction, AMC added the "Grand" to the Wagoneer in 1984 If the FSJ was to be unichassied/coil sprunged they would have been

Ford, GM, and even CryCo had unibodied car's alot earlier then you'd think it wasn't a 1980's invention

I also see many blaming Chrysler for the death of the FSJ, Well from what i seen in jeep 84+ AMC was already phasing them out the 86+ MJ was able to match the J/10 for payload/towed load and the XJ dose/did everything the Wagoneer was used for . . . FSJ = 8-12mpg MSJ = 15-20mpg

or

Maybe AMC was getting ready to update the FSJ's as they were after all a 1960's design . . . Kind of like AMC did when they went from the CJ's to the YJ's 86'/87' maybe the FSJ was headed for the same revamp

I guess we'll never know tho
Mike
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Unread 07-29-2011, 12:30 AM   #30
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The Second pic was a chop shop done by a member of IFSJA.org
Both those chops were done by suqz, she does AWESOME work. Pretty much any Jeep chop floating around is her work, actually. The Durango/Wagoneer was just a rough idea to see how the Grand Wagoneer front would work on the Durango lines.

Also, Mike, the signs are going to all look like this eventually:

(The one on the right).

If your dealer just changed signs and doesn't have Ram up there, he's either not selling trucks (unlikely) or wasting money (more likely)

Also, if AMC had survived and went on, I doubt the Grand Wagoneer would be much different from the modern Durango or Explorer. Maybe it might have gone in a BOF direction after the Tahoe/Yukon (Or even Suburban/Yukon XL), but to think it'd be basically the same today is, frankly, silly. It wasn't built with solid axles to make it a champion off-roader, it was built with them because that was the technology available at the time. Everything had live axles.
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