KL Liberty/Cherokee - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Future Models & Prototype Discussion > KL Liberty/Cherokee

Engo winches available at www.rockridge4wd.com! Free shippDan's Old as Dirt Birthday Sale!Advance Adapters SYE Kits

Reply
Unread 06-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #16
srmitchell
Registered User
2001 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Humboldt County, CA
Posts: 3,485
We need a light weight unibody, Cherokee like body, but with the wrangler running fear and axles.

__________________
2001 XJ, patriot blue, 4 inch RE lift, IRO long arms, 33's. Caged, locked, armored -Trail Rig
2004 WJ Special Edition, Silver, 3 inch IRO lift, 4.7, JK graphite moab wheels/SRA's- Mom's dd
2004 WJ Overland, Onyx Green, 90% dechromed, soon to have JK moab's, BFG MT's, and a 3 inch IRO lift My new DD/ project
srmitchell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2011, 06:25 AM   #17
Jeepsman
Registered User
2005 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Normal IL
Posts: 242
I've always loved Jeep because they were relatively cheap yet reliable. Looks like one part of that equation is being removed. What's next Wranglers selling for $30,000+... nevermind.
__________________
2005 Jeep Liberty
2006 Jeep Wrangler X (SnowWhite's)
Jeepsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2011, 12:09 PM   #18
XJ2Timer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Temple, TX
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepsman View Post
I've always loved Jeep because they were relatively cheap yet reliable. Looks like one part of that equation is being removed. What's next Wranglers selling for $30,000+... nevermind.
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/1...niversary-40k/
__________________
1st one- 1989 Cherokee Laredo. 12 great years
2nd one- 2001 Cherokee Limited. Got it before they were gone.
XJ2Timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2012, 12:40 PM   #19
huntb
Registered User
2008 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 567
Just met with a couple Chrysler guys that are working with the KL platform. They pretty much confirmed that it is going to be built off of the Fiat PF platform and use the 2.0L or 1.4L Turbo 4-cylinder engines. It is going to be somewhat similar to the Alfa Romeo Giulietta but about 3" wider and a taller stance to fit the drive line. No word on what 4x2 or 4x4 system will be used in it though. Kinda disappointing IMO but they did say that the interior will be really cool

Edit: It is also supposed to start rolling out early 2014
huntb is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-17-2012, 12:31 AM   #20
Poncherello
Moderator
2010 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Paterson, New Jersey
Posts: 976
Here's an idea, instead of Fiat calling it a Liberty or a Cherokee maybe they can call it a Rouge or RAV - wait those names are taken.

A 2.0L 170hp 4 cylinder I wonder how long that engine will last before it fries.

I understand about building some vehicles to cater to the mainstream, but in addition to the Wrangler can they at least build some versions of these new vehicles that have some nice off-road features other than stupid decals and paint and rims?

I remember reading the car manual from my 70' Chevelle Malibu and you could get a 6 engine options and 3 transmission options. And if you came across a Chevelle with SS decals on it, it meant something more. - The good old days - sorry reminiscing a bit.
Poncherello is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2012, 11:34 AM   #21
kenskis
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 287
Here is what some say is a mule for the Liberty replacement. My guess would be that what's pictured is actually a Compass replacement.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...nge-a-bit.html



__________________
|______
|l ,[____],
l---L –OlllllllO-
()_)-()_)--o-)_)
Red 03 TJ sport l OME lift l ARB's front & rear l 4.11 gears l 32X11.50" MTR's l Nth Degree Tummy Tucker l SYE & CV l Nth Degree Dana 44 slider l Nth Degree Oil Pan Skid l JKS adjustable front track bar l KC slimlights l Rock Rails l IPF H4 headlights l Dynamat
kenskis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2012, 10:25 PM   #22
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,797
POWERTRAIN mule, body has zero resemblance to what the final product will look like.

As for that, it could either be a Liberty or Patriot/Compass mule. Possibly both, since the Liberty is being build on an upscaled version of the C-Evo.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-08-2012, 11:53 PM   #23
kenskis
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 287
I find it hard to believe that the next Liberty will be on a FWD platform. The difference between the Compass and Liberty will now be the same as the difference between the Rav4 and Highlander...great.

Sidenote: Why do car companies with a strong heritage insist on destroying it to "break into new markets"? My list of cars I'm not interested in buying include the Jeep Compass and the Porsche Cayenne. Why? Because Jeep is well known for building off-roaders and Porsche is well known for building sports cars. The Compass is no off-roader, & the Cayenne is no sports car. It used to be enough to say you drove a Jeep or a Porsche, and people had a good mental image of your car. Now, it's just as generic as saying you drive Toyota. Let Dodge sell Calibers and VW sell Tourags. Argh, my list keeps growing - Range Rover Evoque, Ferrari FF, etc.
__________________
|______
|l ,[____],
l---L –OlllllllO-
()_)-()_)--o-)_)
Red 03 TJ sport l OME lift l ARB's front & rear l 4.11 gears l 32X11.50" MTR's l Nth Degree Tummy Tucker l SYE & CV l Nth Degree Dana 44 slider l Nth Degree Oil Pan Skid l JKS adjustable front track bar l KC slimlights l Rock Rails l IPF H4 headlights l Dynamat
kenskis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-09-2012, 08:51 AM   #24
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,797
The thing is, there's no room for 'specialty' brands any more. Even Lamborghini and Aston Martin are bringing out sedans and SUVs. The Cayenne almost outsells every other Porsche combined, and outsells the 911 about 2-to-1.

The Cayenne is what pays for the specialty vehicles and the race cars.

The new Grand Cherokee is the best-selling one in a long time, and the best-selling vehicle Jeep makes. The Wrangler Unlimited makes up 60% of the sales numbers (Maybe more, that split is from '08), the Compass and Patriot combined sell almost as many as the Grand and the Wrangler now that they're not miserable little ugly crapboxes.

They break into new markets because the old ones are no longer sustainable. Back in the '90s, the same uproar was heard when the original Grand Cherokee came out, and it very quickly because Jeep's best-selling vehicle, and the only reason the brand survived back then.

Big, squishy off-roaders pay for Porsche's hard-core cars, and big, squishy off-roaders pay for Wranglers, too. Welcome to the modern automotive market, enjoy your stay.

And what's the harm in making squishy vehicles if they still make the hard-core ones? I know plenty of guys, myself included, who would buy a Patriot, for example, as an efficient DD and a parts hauler for a Wrangler, so I only need to drive it when I want to and don't waste its lifespan on pavement, but I'd never buy a Patriot if it was a Dodge, even if it was completely identical save for the badges on the front. Yeah, I know Jeep's missing a lot of the hardcore vehicles they used to have-but the Gladiator was killed by Chrysler because it wasn't needed with Dodge, the Comanche was killed because the Dakota was still a good truck then and the dealers actually asked for it instead, the Grand Cherokee was turned soft by Mercedes and the Cherokee turned into the Liberty because of consumer demand-the original Liberty outsold the Cherokee by a noticeable margin.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-09-2012, 09:09 AM   #25
XJ2Timer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Temple, TX
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
and the Cherokee turned into the Liberty because of consumer demand-the original Liberty outsold the Cherokee by a noticeable margin.
For a short period of time. Then sales dropped off. Cherokee sales stayed fairly high for the entire 17 year run.
__________________
1st one- 1989 Cherokee Laredo. 12 great years
2nd one- 2001 Cherokee Limited. Got it before they were gone.
XJ2Timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-09-2012, 07:47 PM   #26
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,797
I'll pull up some stats I posted on Allpar on a similar subject-the sales of individual SUVs are down everywhere because there are so many on the market now.

In '99, there were 37 SUVs for sale on the market. If you remove luxury and rare vehicles (Land Rovers, Mercs, ect), here's what you get:

Chevrolet Suburban/Tahoe/GMC Yukon/Yukon XL
Dodge Durango
Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer
Honda CR-V
Honda Passport
Izuzu Rodeo
Jeep Cherokee
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota RAV-4
Nissan Pathfinder
GMC Jimmy/Envoy/Chevrolet Blazer

And here's every vehicle that competes with a Jeep model sold today:

Acura MDX
Audi Q5
Audi Q7
Buick Enclave
BMW X5
BMW X6
Cadillac SRX
Chevrolet Equinox
Chevolet Tahoe
Dodge Durango
Ford Edge
Ford Escape
Ford Expedition
Ford Explorer
Ford Flex
GMC Acadia
GMC Terrain
GMC Yukon
Honda CR-V
Honda Pilot
Hyundai Santa Fe
Hyundai Tuscon
Hyundai Veracruz
Infiniti FX
Infiniti QX
Jeep Compass
Jeep Patriot
Jeep Liberty
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
Kia Sportage
Kia Sorrento
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover Freelander
Land Rover Range Rover Sport
Land Rover Range Rover
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque
Lincoln MKT
Lincoln MKX
Lincoln Navigator
Mazda CX-7
Mazda CX-9
Mazda Tibute
Mercedes G
Mercedes GL
Mercedes GLK
Mercedes M
Mercedes R
Mitsubishi Endeavor
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Armada
Nissan Murano
Nissan Pathfinder
Nissan Rogue
Nissan X-Terra
Nissan X-Trail
Porsche Cayenne
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota RAV-4
Toyota Sequioa
VW Tiguan
VW Touraeg
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC70
Volvo XC90

Again, even if you take out the luxury SUVs (Which many CJDR dealers I've heard from, are competing with the Grand Cherokee now-on Allpar, we've got a dealer who's had Land Rovers, a Porsche Cayenne and a few Japanese and American luxury SUVs traded in on Grand Cherokees), there are twice as many SUVs and CUVs on the market today as there were back then.

Plus, while SUVs are a larger percentage of the market, the market is smaller overall-16.5 million new cars sold in '99, 13 million in '11.

I miss the Cherokee too. The KJ was a decent substitute, but not much of a replacement, but the KK is kind of sad. The KL is going a completely different track, but that may or may not be to make room for a wagon-bodied version of the Wrangler Unlimited, one of the possible new 'Wrangler derivatives' they're talking about building.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-10-2012, 07:47 PM   #27
JeepN4KC
Keep on Jeepin on........
 
JeepN4KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 5,485
I think the reason I, along with several others, don't like the KL "prototype" if you will, is because it appears that outside of the Wrangler, Jeep is moving further from it's roots just to capture a new audience.

I feel like I'm talking to my daughters when I say:

If you have to change who you are in order to get people to like you - it's time to take a long hard look at who it is you're hoping to appeal to.
__________________
~Mike~

My Build Thread WK
My Other Build Thread XJ
'01 XJ with some stuff
Sept 2013 Cherokee of the Month
'07 WK with some other stuff
~RED WK CLUB #7~
'11 KK with mostly stock stuff
'06WK our first Jeep with stock stuff - totalled and gone
JeepN4KC is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-10-2012, 08:39 PM   #28
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,797
Not to be a ******, but that's a slightly ironic opinion for someone who's owned 2 WKs and a KK to hold.

Yes, both are more quintessentially Jeep than the next Compass/Patriot and Liberty, but still.

The thing is, a lot of people believe, mistakenly, that the Grand Cherokee (And the Grand Wagoneer before it) were built to be simple, rugged, mountain-climbing machines.

This is wrong.

They were designed to be the exact same thing that the WKII and, probably, the KL, do-be as luxurious as you can while still being capable off-roaders.

The Grand Wagoneer had solid front axles because independent suspension for trucks plain didn't exist. In fact, the Grand Wagoneer (And Gladiator) were some of, possibly the, first trucks to be available with IFS. Reportedly, nobody bought it because it was crappy and expensive.

The Grand Cherokee ZJ was the same story. Again, independent suspension in trucks and SUVs wasn't there yet. Almost all of its competition had solid front and rear, too.

The WJ retained the solid axles, because it was cheaper for Jeep engineers to tinker with it to remain comfortable than re-engineer the whole platform.

Can a solid axled vehicle be comfortable? Yes. Are independent suspensions universally more comfortable, and worse off-road? Hell no. Are solid axles considered archaic by 95% of consumers? Very yes.

The Wrangler is still a true Jeep, and always will be. Yes, it's disappointing that a proper Cherokee replacement no longer really exists, even though the Patriot, Grand Cherokee and Wrangler Unlimited cover 90% of its former customer base. But there's no reason to build softer models if that's what the consumers want-otherwise, Jeep would be yet another dead car brand.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that Jeep's old markets have all since left.

The military? The smallest vehicles that currently fit the role of the old MBs and M38s are Mercedes G-Wagons and Land Rover Wolfs, and they're rapidly being phased out, along with HMMWVs, by MRAPs. The J8 is useful in some places, and might wind up replacing the HMMWV and DPV for US Special Forces, but there's no place for a 'real Jeep' in a modern military, not in the scale and depth it used to.

Commercial, agricultural, industrial and off-highway use? It's been split up. Side-by-sides and UTVs have replaced it as a small hauler and runabout. Small utility tractors have replaced it as an small instrument hauler and PTO source.

As a hobby vehicle? Again, back to the side-by-side.

A brand needs to evolve or die. Frankly, it's amazing that the Wrangler is still as profitable as it is-and that's entirely because of the 75,000-and-growing 4-doors they sell every year.

Enzo Ferrari once said that 'The Jeep is America's only true sports car.', and, when it comes to the classic, SWB versions, that's a very apt comparison-like a Ferrari, everybody loves them, but only a handful of people every year can justify owning one. As someone who's only car is a TJ, driving it every day blows. It's the best thing in the world when the top's off, the sun is shining and I'm tooling around some old logging road, but when it's -40*C, I'm hammering on the ignition just to start it and giving myself frostbite holding the steering wheel because the heater core needs about 20 minutes of movement to start pumping out heat, the top is making a bunch of sqeeking noises, every bump rattles the whole vehicle, if I hit a patch of ice, I slide around like I'm skating, even with snow tires, the noises coming from the drivetrain would be death noises from any other car, but are normal for a Jeep but no less annoying...it's mornings like that when I really, really want to go buy one of the cheap stripper Patriots at the local dealership, so I can afford to leave the TJ in a nice car tent and be able to work on it at my leisure and drive it only when I want to.

Maybe when you live in the South, where it's warm all year around and doesn't rain much, where you can go topless with a jacket in January, DDing a Wrangler is great. But above the snow line? It's really tiring some days.

And that's why Jeep needs some softer vehicles.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-10-2012, 09:02 PM   #29
JeepN4KC
Keep on Jeepin on........
 
JeepN4KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posts: 5,485
^^^ I don't see how it's "ironic." We bought our first Jeep, the 06 WK, because we always wanted a Jeep, liked the GC, and have two kids. Took it for a test drive and loved it. It fit our needs and wants. But that doesn't mean we expected it to buggy over boulders.

The GC has morphed into something that you almost wouldn't want to take off the pavement. In fact, I would venture to say with the IFS and solid rear, the WK could be the last off-road capable GC. (Not baggin the WK2 cause I really don't know how it does- just sayin the WK at least maintained one solid axle)

My point is the Jeep name has always had a rugged canotation and promoted taking the road less traveled and with the move toward the "softer" vehicles, as you say, that road less traveled is getting left behind.

I agree that companies have to evolve - and simply evolving on the off-road front wouldn't be smart or sustainable on Jeep's part. But other makers have nearly always tried to copy/imitate/compete with the Jeep brand and now it just looks like the tables have turned - at least begun to.

Maybe it's a good thing - don't know and only time will tell. Maybe it's a move to exclusively brand the Wrangler as THE true off-road capable Jeep.
Kind of like what Dodge did with the Ram truck. I could see that, no? Imagine commercials and ads for "Wrangler" - no Jeep attached, just "Wrangler."
__________________
~Mike~

My Build Thread WK
My Other Build Thread XJ
'01 XJ with some stuff
Sept 2013 Cherokee of the Month
'07 WK with some other stuff
~RED WK CLUB #7~
'11 KK with mostly stock stuff
'06WK our first Jeep with stock stuff - totalled and gone
JeepN4KC is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #30
Marauder_Pilot
Moderator
 
Marauder_Pilot's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
Posts: 1,797
My point about irony is that the WK and KK are generally pointed out as the vehicles where Jeep started to lose its way by the mainliners. I personally kinda like both, but still.

IFS/IRS can be just as capable off-road as solid axles for most off-roading. The Grand Cherokee is limited by a lot other factors before the suspension choice.

The WKII made it over the Rubicon trail and Moab with as much trouble as you'd expect a completely stock Grand Cherokee to. (Bashed in the lip spoiler a bit, but otherwise OK). It's every bit as capable as the Jeeps that preceded it-it's just that it uses an entirely more complicated system to do so. One that exists in the name of ride quality, but still.

Nobody takes a new Grand Cherokee off-road, because nobody takes $30,000+ cars anywhere that stands a not-insignificant chance of seriously damaging it.

The defining feature of Jeep, in the passenger vehicle marketplace, has always been that they've been the most off-road capable vehicles on the market. And, with only a few possible exceptions, that holds true. The Wrangler is still the best in its class. The Grand Cherokee can beat anything in its class too. The Liberty...it's as good as anything, but not definitively better. The Patriot and Compass are both significantly better, but they're in a class not known for off-road capability (Although they're a LOT better than you'd expect-a buddy of mine in Winnipeg has an '07 FDI Patriot, and the only problem with it off-road is the weak-titty CVT/2.4L combo).

Jeep and Wrangler will never be seperated-if anything, it'll go the other way, everything save the Wrangler will be moved into another brand if something like that ever happened (Not likely, but still). Here's why: point at a Wrangler and ask the nearest person 'What kind of vehicle is that?' 99% of the time, whether they know it's called a Wrangler or not, they'll call it a Jeep. In many languages, 'jeep' is their word for SUV, and in English it isn't just a brand or a vehicle, it's a word for any short, rugged SUV.

The reason that nobody has ever successfully competed with Jeep in North America is because they lack the cachet-Jeep is probably the most American brand in existence, and the Wrangler is definitely tied for first for the most American vehicle (3-way tie between a pickup, a muscle car and a Jeep)
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
2010 Kawasaki KLR650-Stock
Marauder_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.