Exactly. The Grand Wagoneer was only a hardcore off-roader by association. At the time, independent suspension on trucks just flat out did not exist. Independent suspension on trucks didn't start showing up until the late '80s and early '90s, and even then it took until the mid '90s for it to become commonplace.
It had solid axles because that's what was available at the time. It wasn't designed to be a rock crawler, it just happened to be one because it was made by digging around in Jeep's parts bin to make a luxury SUV.
I knew the Waggy and Gladiator were the first American 4x4s with IFS, but Id never seen a picture of the setup. Thats VERY similar to the TTB setup that Ford had. And for the record, I think that this type of system is better than the A-arm/Wishbone setups that most mfg's favor. This is a solid axle that happens to have a pivot in the center, whereas the more commonplace IFS systems with their CV joints arent much different than what you'd find on a fwd car.
Which makes pretty much everything you said about IFS irrelevant.
Was just gonna say the same thing! The wagoneer was way ahead of the times all the way to the early 80's, then it went stagnate when they decided to not step up to Fuel Injection or even a solid state coil.
I daily drive my 91 and that air actuated 4x4 switch is just awesome. Now push button 4x4 is commonplace!
Ok, is the Fiat frame going to be a stronger/better off-road capable uni-frame?
And, why would they get rid of the Dana-35/30 combo? That has been a staple of the Cherokee/Liberty line-up for decades. They are perfect for off-roading, and upgrading with LS or lockers for serious users.
or, are they still going to use the Dana-35/30?
Will the 2013 Liberty still be as capable?
Last edited by Condor1970; 09-16-2011 at 09:55 PM..
Then you'll be buying a Wrangler-the next Liberty will probably be reasonably competent off-road but upmarket enough that you won't want to. It'll basically be a smaller companion to the new Grand Cherokee.
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
Uhhh...you DO know that the current Liberty is IFS, and uses a Chrysler 8.25 rear axle, right?
But, yes, it's going to be on a Fiat-derived PLATFORM (Not a frame, a platform is just a set of dimensions for manufacturing purposes), and will likely be AWD.
The KK and KJ Libertys (Liberties?) aren't all that capable. Substantially less so than the XJ. It's going to be moving upmarket-think of the smaller Land Rovers, in terms of capability and features.
I been reading this thread and I remember that Fiat did want to make lighter bodies, transmissions with more gears (good so long as they are reliable), and reintroducing turbo diesels which would be awesome. And even if everything really isn't designed on what we like the most important is that more Americans will be employed right?
Anyways, as far as off road capable SUV's you can't forget they are about the Pathfinders, 4 Runners, FJ Cruisers, Xterras and each of them are very capable they have power gearing and ground clearance. And real nice even though I can't afford any of them LOL
Just a last note, how you can say that KK or KJ isn't capable? I beg to differ, I think the Lib pretty capable, it could use more ground clearance which is a biggy but it is capable. I've had it the snow, sand & water (12-16") and no issues and admit it was nothing hardcore and won't be until I pay it off (3yrs 11 months and counting). The darn hood alone weighs about 90lbs and is all steel I could sit up on it and stare at the stars without buckling, now how many vehicles built today can do that?
Well I guess we can all hope and pray and in the meantime just do some jeeping :]