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Unread 05-06-2012, 09:07 AM   #46
White2012
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I am new to the forum and happy to be here and will freely admit that my history of the Wranglers is not nearly up to par compared to most of the members here I am sure. I would have to concur that seeing a small turbo diesel such as what they offer on the Wranglers in Europe would be a nice choice for a power plant. I have a hard time wrapping my head around not wanting an engine that will get you close to 40mpg on the highway and mid 20's in the city and has torque to spare albeit you'd have to give up a little HP compared to the 3.6 that is in my 2012 JKU.

I held off on getting the JK because I wanted the new engine and have to say I've been impressed with it thus far. I can think that if a diesel came out and was not ridiculously priced however, I'd probably be considering it if I could afford it.

I couldn't see Fiat making crazy design changes to the Wranglers as it would ruin the icon that Jeep has had for over 70 years. Yes changes have been made, but there are still design elements that you can something in them all that says "Jeep."

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Unread 05-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #47
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I have an MB. I love it for what it represents, but it rarely gets driven. Its a blast, but a very uncomfortable blast. Its very unstable on the roads, but great off road of course. Other than size, the current Wrangler is more capable in all aspects than the MB.
Finally, someone who truly 'gets it'.

I suspect that most people saying 'Bring back the CJ-2! I'd DD/work with one have neither DD'd nor worked with one, and truely don't understand the limitations they had.

Not that it's a slam against the vehicle, it's just that the design is 70+ years old now.

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Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
I'd like to see an aluminum body. Less weight (good for crawling and satisfying the Feds, plus less rust to worry about).
It's also be 50% more expensive. Steel and fiberglass are a lot cheaper.
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Unread 05-06-2012, 10:09 AM   #48
shippey-ki-yay
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I dodn't know if an aluminum body would fare much better in the "rust belt" seeing as aluminum reacts with salt water. Also any bodywork would be difficult
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Unread 05-06-2012, 10:11 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
Finally, someone who truly 'gets it'.

I suspect that most people saying 'Bring back the CJ-2! I'd DD/work with one have neither DD'd nor worked with one, and truely don't understand the limitations they had.

Not that it's a slam against the vehicle, it's just that the design is 70+ years old now.



It's also be 50% more expensive. Steel and fiberglass are a lot cheaper.
I would love one the size of the CJ2A though. Vehicles of all sorts have gotten bigger and bigger. Now there is a place for bigger things, but we really need a light agile trail vehicle, and one that people can afford to drive.
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Unread 05-06-2012, 12:19 PM   #50
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Unread 05-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shippey-ki-yay View Post
Getting back on topic....I had forgotten about the Jeep Icon

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...n-Concept.aspx

The Icon featured 4 wheel independent suspension as well as unibody construction. It was a concept from 1997
Its kooks like the jeep JJ?
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Unread 05-07-2012, 05:24 AM   #52
GrassLakeRon
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So how many wranglers will they sell when there is no frame to speak of and torsion bar front axle (IFS) and rack steering? Then what will make them any different from every other car suv crossover? Other then it says Jeep?
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Unread 05-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon
So how many wranglers will they sell when there is no frame to speak of and torsion bar front axle (IFS) and rack steering? Then what will make them any different from every other car suv crossover? Other then it says Jeep?
That is irrelevant, Jeep already has vehicles to fill those requirements. The Wrangler is Jeep's Vette, people buy it b/c they want it, not b/c it suits their needs better than a Honda Pilot.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 09:22 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
I'd like to see an aluminum body. Less weight (good for crawling and satisfying the Feds, plus less rust to worry about).
aluminum doesn't rust because it doesn't contain iron. it will still corrode however. in fact aluminum corrodes faster than steel....don't believe me, look at a galvanic reactivity chart.

while I like the idea of a lighter tub & subsequently better fuel economy, it would make a new Wrangler too expensive to the end customer. More plastic and fiberglass would be more economical, but also more cheesy. I'd be ok with a fiberglass hood.

In a new Wrangler, I'd rather see a turbo-diesel with at least 330-350 ft-lbs torque, in front of a 6-speed manual, CVT, or HD 5+ speed automatic.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 11:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
So how many wranglers will they sell when there is no frame to speak of and torsion bar front axle (IFS) and rack steering? Then what will make them any different from every other car suv crossover? Other then it says Jeep?
Yeah, and then they'll make the roof solid and make the doors not removable, and maybe add a V8 to up the towing capacity.

Oh, wait.



Watch out for all that falling sky, better get a helmet.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 03:11 PM   #56
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Maybe I'm to old but hopefully you folks will remember this: ford f series trucks. At the time becoming the best selling truck, well during the 60's and 70's the f150 had a Dana 44 front axle. By 1980, when the yuppies traded in their volvos for truck (urban cowboy movement) they complained they wanted a better ride. Well fords answer was goodbye twin I beam and solid axle. Ford said it was the most capable truck ever. I blew more of their new front axles then I did with my 78'.

Companies once they get the money bug, will go to that group like a crack head needing a fix. Somebody in here said no one wants a basic design, well I did. Not everyone is drawn to power windows,locks, navigation, power heated seats, leather, 285 hp at 5000 rpms or whatever.

To an engineer, who never goes on trails, go anywhere means the 7-11 at midnight. Living next to a Chrysler engineer/test driver it amazing what comes home that he tests. Underneath the bras, computer sensors and tape, you can see ideas in the works. The jeep maybe "the corvette" but what happened in 1983?

The sky is not falling, just don't be surprised if you get hit in the head by a large hail stone.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
aluminum doesn't rust because it doesn't contain iron. it will still corrode however. in fact aluminum corrodes faster than steel....don't believe me, look at a galvanic reactivity chart.
...
you're right it's more reactive, but (especially) some alloys of aluminum form a natural skin (same as stainless steel or titanium) which holds off further corrosion.

Consider Airstream trailers.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
you're right it's more reactive, but (especially) some alloys of aluminum form a natural skin (same as stainless steel or titanium) which holds off further corrosion.

Consider Airstream trailers.
don't worry, I'm aware of aluminum's oxide layer. People scream "oxide layer" whenever you mention corrosion, but most don't realize it does not occur the same on alloys. Notice the galvanic chart I linked covers that. Besides, I highly doubt Jeep would sell a dull aluminum "Airstream" vehicle anyway - it will be painted, same as every other vehicle on the road. Ever wonder why airplane frames & bodies are inspected, certified and replaced on a regular basis? Aluminum corrosion...in fact there have been some pretty catastrophic failures related to corrosion.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
Maybe I'm to old but hopefully you folks will remember this: ford f series trucks. At the time becoming the best selling truck, well during the 60's and 70's the f150 had a Dana 44 front axle. By 1980, when the yuppies traded in their volvos for truck (urban cowboy movement) they complained they wanted a better ride. Well fords answer was goodbye twin I beam and solid axle. Ford said it was the most capable truck ever. I blew more of their new front axles then I did with my 78'.
And yet, the F-150, Ram 1500, Silverado/Sierra 1500, 2500 and 3500, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Ford Ranger and Chevy Colorado/GM Canyon manage to do decent off-road with IFS...
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"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
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| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
1994 GMC Sierra 1500 2WD-Stock
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Unread 05-08-2012, 04:10 AM   #60
GrassLakeRon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
And yet, the F-150, Ram 1500, Silverado/Sierra 1500, 2500 and 3500, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Ford Ranger and Chevy Colorado/GM Canyon manage to do decent off-road with IFS...
Blowing the diff and twisting those torsion bars are hardly what I would call decent. The 78 Ford I had went to all the same places my other trucks did, just minus the twisted and blown parts. My brother has had the same luck with his chevys. I can't speak for the baby truck market because I would never spend my money on one. Why do you think that the 1-ton trucks use an actual solid axle? Durability under hard use. They chevy is hardly what I would call a 1 ton compared to the ford or dodge.

I understand the concept of evolution very well. Jeeps will evolve. I just don't care for current path and the chances are once they head down they will never come back to old ways.
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