The Global parts/or design slippery slope - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 17 Old 03-22-2014, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
nitecop
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The Global parts/or design slippery slope

Great article on why I think auto makers should use quality made parts and not the "China cost" parts no matter where they are made.
I think if more consumers read articles like this it going to get harder for them to buy into the Global economy B.S.
The older cars are starting to better and better all the time.

I really don't want to Chrysler/Jeep picking up speed sliding down. at some point a turn around won't be possible.

Quote:
.......
Crisis Origins
The origins of the crisis engulfing GM go back 14 years. Back then, GM made most of its money selling big SUVs such as the Chevy Suburban and offering home mortgages through its GMAC lending arm, according to Keller. As the 1990s SUV boom faded, the company's net income fell from $6 billion in 1999 to $601 million in 2001, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

GM at the time produced small cars on the cheap to meet federal fuel-economy regulations. The company lost money on each one.

Building a compact car off a single global platform could have changed that. Stamping out millions of similar models would've created economies of scale to allow the automaker to turn a profit on a $12,000 car, the people said.
.....
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-sup...-040114931.htm


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post #2 of 17 Old 09-12-2014, 06:50 AM
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The problem is significantly the customer. The majority of buyers primarily shop price, and will pick one over another sometimes for a few hundred bucks. But what do they care? They're usually leasing the car or buying with intent to trade it in 3 years, so the fact that a few years down the road it will fall apart does not enter their equation.

But I'll go further. Thanks again to our beloved overlords, the current crop of new vehicles are reliability time bombs. The fuel efficiency numbers are not free, manufacturers need to play all kinds of games just to push the numbers up, often making unwise engineering compromises. Not that the government gives a damn about the user, though. Many of these changes involve adding far more complexity (how many eco-boosts with blown turbos will be sitting on the lots in 5 or 10 years) or ridiculous moves to reduce weight (no spare tire? really?).

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post #3 of 17 Old 09-12-2014, 07:06 PM
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We are a legal seller for Ray Ban Aviator in UK. Here you can get Ray Ban Sunglasses UK order by free shipping. Also, you can get cheap price on Ray Ban sale, saving up to 80%.
pedal your pond scum else where TROLLING none vendor.

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post #4 of 17 Old 09-12-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
The problem is significantly the customer. The majority of buyers primarily shop price, and will pick one over another sometimes for a few hundred bucks. But what do they care? They're usually leasing the car or buying with intent to trade it in 3 years, so the fact that a few years down the road it will fall apart does not enter their equation.

But I'll go further. Thanks again to our beloved overlords, the current crop of new vehicles are reliability time bombs. The fuel efficiency numbers are not free, manufacturers need to play all kinds of games just to push the numbers up, often making unwise engineering compromises. Not that the government gives a damn about the user, though. Many of these changes involve adding far more complexity (how many eco-boosts with blown turbos will be sitting on the lots in 5 or 10 years) or ridiculous moves to reduce weight (no spare tire? really?).

I had a Pontiac Solstice over engineered poorly made wonder. EcoTek LNF2.0 VVTDI. It was quick with the Dealer added "tune". started falling apart in less that 14K. with its 20psi boost they used hose clamps to hold all the piping and they were popping off all the time. No spare and no place to put one. was fun though.

Though our 2012 JKR is not much better(last new car/jeep i will ever buy again.. many failed electrical issues. at least it has a real spare. Being a Jeep i can live with the troubles once out of warranty will replace the wonder motor with something far simpler and ditch all the "wizardry" put it on a trailer and continue to use it as wheeler.

Was looking for a diesel truck(to trailer the jeep) they have ruined the diesels with all the "wizardry" and the price is about what I paid for my 1600 sqft home, payments would be double my mortgage was. so i bought used NO smog, No airbags, No DPF. Older 7.3 that should go 500K miles, burning coal. that cost a 10th of new. I wont burn enough fuel to make it worth buying new. cost 30$ to register it..........

Time to pull out my 71z 28 when we need another car. But the wife still loves her Plymouth.

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post #5 of 17 Old 09-15-2014, 12:24 PM
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My biggest gripe is plastic head lights. The coating is visibly degraded by the time you make the last payment.
If you are going to design for safety then you design for the safety of the driver first.
It is only by being able to see that the driver is able to avoid collisions.
So why handicap the driver with plastic lights to protect pedestrians from being cut by glass.
I'd rather make sure the driver can see the pedestrian and not hit them at all.

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post #6 of 17 Old 09-18-2014, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ2Timer View Post
My biggest gripe is plastic head lights. The coating is visibly degraded by the time you make the last payment.
If you are going to design for safety then you design for the safety of the driver first.
It is only by being able to see that the driver is able to avoid collisions.
So why handicap the driver with plastic lights to protect pedestrians from being cut by glass.
I'd rather make sure the driver can see the pedestrian and not hit them at all.
X2 agree with you on the headlight issues.
GM and Nissan and I'm sure I'm leaving other out here did make some of their vehicle years ago with Gla$$ composite headlights.
I remember the 88 RWD cutlass.
Its shame we couldn't have the glass again with maybe a replaceable thin lexan cover (to prevent rock damage to the Gla$$)

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post #7 of 17 Old 09-18-2014, 12:31 PM
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One would think that in this high tech age, someone would look at the "glass" developed by NASA for their space vehicles . It can take a zillion degrees of heat, survive micrometeorite hits, and stay clear.

How's that Hope and Change workin for ya?

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post #8 of 17 Old 09-18-2014, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by grymsr View Post
One would think that in this high tech age, someone would look at the "glass" developed by NASA for their space vehicles . It can take a zillion degrees of heat, survive micrometeorite hits, and stay clear.
I'd bet the auto company's plastic has more profit in it.
They are building cars to last though the warranty period.

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post #9 of 17 Old 09-20-2014, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitecop View Post
I'd bet the auto company's plastic has more profit in it.
They are building cars to last though the warranty period.
The combination of using plastic as well as specially styled light assemblies has got to be a profit source. One person told me that after a minor accident, the headlight cost more than the fender.

The old glass sealed beams cost a few dollars to replace. True they had performance rooted in the past but it would have been very easy to update their performance (you can get glass replacement e-code assemblies not that expensively) or create a new standard.

Instead we have cars a few years old running around with lighting far worse than the old sealed beams because the plastic has dulled.

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post #10 of 17 Old 09-20-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
The combination of using plastic as well as specially styled light assemblies has got to be a profit source. One person told me that after a minor accident, the headlight cost more than the fender.
Yep, I used to have a Pontiac G6, someone backed into me in a parking lot cracking the passenger side headlight and ripping the bumper cover. The headlight cost around $250, the bumper cover was around $100 (both new GM parts paid for by the other driver's insurance), though the cost to paint the bumper cover was more than both combined (around $400).
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post #11 of 17 Old 11-08-2015, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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I hope the Enthusiast's fears about the Mergers have not come home to roost.
If Correct threads like this might just be the tip of the Iceberg.

(This is about a newer Cherokee)

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/chero...ml#post2812898

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPoland View Post
..... We have about 3,000 towing miles on her. In September I started having issues with the left headlight turning on by itself. I put the car in the shop to get it looked at. They were not able to re-create the problem, but while it was in there, they updated the TCM, BCM, PCM as well as the uConnect software on the radio. Within 3 weeks, I started having problems with the Stop/Start system, transmission shifting, and 4WD System Unavailable. I dropped the car off at the Jeep Service Center on October 2 and except for 2 weekends (picked it up Friday, dropped it back off Monday with issues) is has been, and is still in the shop.

So far it has received numerous software updates, a new TCM, a new transmission, and one wiring harness (not sure which one). To Jeep/Chrysler's credit, they have provided me a rental car, and are doing their best to fix it. They are now emailing back and forth with the Chrysler techs looking at resistance of different wires in the harness. I have been told it's a slow process. I have been assured that they will fix it. The checks in the mail, and I will respect you in the morning come to mind.

Does anyone have experience with the lemon laws? I love the Cherokee. I drives and rides well. It tows wonderfully. But it has reached the point where I don't have any confidence in the car, or quite frankly, Jeeps ability to fix it.
.......
Lastly, if anyone is looking to get a Cherokee.... Don't. If you still want to do it, NEVER let them update the software that came with the car.

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Originally Posted by allegro1x View Post
....... I got the Jeep Liberty back in 2008 and haven't had too many problems, but wouldn't buy it again. Dave
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Originally Posted by BPoland View Post
..... I thought I had the right mix with the Cherokee. I have never had a vehicle spend as much time in the shop as this one has. I am in uncharted waters.
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Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
I have a 2005 Grand Cherokee, it worked flawlessly prior to the recall for the Neutral Transfer switch which I had back in Mid 2013. For over a year the neutral transfer worked about 1/2 the time and left my wife stranded twice. The first time she had to take it to a dealer in NY and they reflashed the computer. It worked for ~2 months and then down in Florida it did the same thing we ended up driving it back home.

.....
I finally got another recall notice earlier this year, it seems to have fixed the neutral switching issue but soon after that I would loose all electric on the dash (no AC, radio, instruments) but the Jeep would still drive.

They put out another recall mid last year and finally got the notice to fix the ignition switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Got that done Monday, and at the same time the service manager handed me a list of "suggested" maintenance items, probably totaling $2500. I said THANKS but NO THANKS, the next thing to happen with the Jeep is it's going to get SOLD.

I am completely disappointed with my Jeep and the customer service that they provided. I would never buy another one.
__________________________________________________ _
Quote:
Originally Posted by allegro1x View Post
sounds like switches are not reliable - old style lever usually works all the time. Dave
__________________________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPoland View Post
The wiring harness is the Demco plug in harness. It was installed in March of 2015 and has caused no issues that I am aware of. The dealer called today and said they found 2 loose pins in a harness. T
hey had corrected it, and were road testing it. I called 90 minutes later to find out that it had thrown another code at the end of the test drive. They are no closer to fixing it, than they were last week.

I called Jeep Customer Service and told them I wanted someone to begin looking at the case for a Lemon Law Replacement. They have escalated it and assigned a case worker to look things over. I'm going to try and be nice and see how it goes. Mom always said be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

]Love the car. Love the way it tows. Just need a new more dependable version.
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Originally Posted by vman60 View Post
Seems the Italians aren't very good at maintaining the dependability of an American product. Where's Iacoca when you need him.
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-09-2015, 08:43 AM
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Have friends with a compass that randomly looses all auxiliary power. Headlights, wipers, dash and interior. FCA won't do a thing because it's 2 months out of warranty...
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-09-2015, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ruggedscotsman View Post
Have friends with a compass that randomly looses all auxiliary power. Headlights, wipers, dash and interior. FCA won't do a thing because it's 2 months out of warranty...

Headlights and wipers seem kinda Important,......on a rainy night.
I'd bet there is a computer/module hooked to the items that are Not working as they should. It seems to the currently running theme.

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post #14 of 17 Old 11-13-2015, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitecop View Post

Headlights and wipers seem kinda Important,......on a rainy night.
I'd bet there is a computer/module hooked to the items that are Not working as they should. It seems to the currently running theme.
Likely...I think the dealer gave them the run around till the warranty expired instead of replacing expensive bits
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post #15 of 17 Old 12-13-2016, 12:35 PM
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good luck
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